Author Topic: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom  (Read 327 times)

DDBenson

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DNG files no longer update in iMatch and I can not figure out what setting might have gotten changed to cause this.
If I select an older (anything added prior to a couple of days ago) file in Lightroom and choose Update DNG Preview and Metadata, then in IMatch all previously recognized adjustments to that file are no longer reflected.
If I add a new file to the database, no adjustments made in Lightroom are recognized in IM. The new file is seen, and any ratings or labels are recognized, but no image adjustments (including crops) are seen in IM.
Files appear as expected in Windows picture viewers, so I suspect the problem is within IMatch.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

JohnZeman

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2019, 12:14:24 AM »
Any time I do anything with a DNG file in Lightroom after Lightroom writes its changes to the DNG file in IMatch I need to rescan the folder that DNG is in.

DDBenson

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2019, 01:01:36 AM »
I've tried that. Thanks, John.
In the process of trying to work this thing out, I wondered if a recent Windows update might be the culprit so I selected a restore point from about four days ago. Unfortunately something went very wrong and the restore failed. Blue Screen. I couldn't even start windows in Safe Mode. I tried everything I could think of before I finally ended up re-installing Windows. So most of my day has been getting back to square one. (It's all part of the fun, as they say.)
So I'm now working from a clean install of Windows and Lightroom and IMatch. The Lightroom and IMatch databases and config files were saved so I'm still able to use them. However, the problem still exists. Which is why I finally gave up and asked here online. :-)

JohnZeman

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2019, 01:31:10 AM »
I can certainly empathize with what you're going through DD, just minutes ago I finally solved the problem created by my anti-virus program earlier today when it issued a false positive alarm and wiped out Dropbox on my PC.

Good luck, I'm sure Mario will have some suggestions to help you a few hours from now.

Carlo Didier

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 07:24:10 AM »
Any time I do anything with a DNG file in Lightroom after Lightroom writes its changes to the DNG file in IMatch I need to rescan the folder that DNG is in.

Hmm, never had to do that, and I work with DNGs exclusively. BUT, I don't use Lightroom, only Bridge/ACR, although the raw processing engine is the same, there might be some difference in the saving function.

Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 09:18:12 AM »
A manual rescan is not needed.

IMatch monitors Windows file system messages and when it received a "Folder modified" it marks the folder fo a rescan. Then it waits 20 seconds and if no further file system activity is detected, it rescans the folder. I use Lr and I never need to manually rescan folders. Its fully automatic.

The reason for the wait time is (not only) Adobe applications don't overwrite the (DNG) file during save. Instead they create a temporary file in the same folder. If this works, they delete the original image and then rename the temporary copy. If IMatch would rescan the folder in the middle of this process, it could accidentally remove the original file from the database (because it does not exist in the file system anymore). One of the many things IMatch does to copy with all the strange and various behaviors of other applications...

Thinks to check:

Make sure that background indexing is on under Edit > Preferences > Background Processing (Import new and updates files automatically).
The log file records when IMatch detects changes made to a folder, and also if and which folders are checked for updates. Run the log file in debug mode (see log file) for the most detailed log.

Carlo Didier

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 10:33:25 AM »
IMatch monitors Windows file system messages and when it received a "Folder modified" it marks the folder fo a rescan.

Warning: this doesn't necessarily work if the folders are on a NAS! It definitely doesn't work on my Synology NAS.

JohnZeman

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2019, 01:49:50 PM »
Make sure that background indexing is on under Edit > Preferences > Background Processing (Import new and updates files automatically).

Ah.  It was only recently that I added all of my original images to my IMatch database, before that only IMatch touched the derived jpgs in my database so I had automatic background processing disabled.  Which of course meant I always had to manually refresh my folders after processing DNGs with Lightroom.

This is good to know and I've enabled that option now, thanks guys.

Now if DDBenson can find the solution to his problem.

Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2019, 02:23:22 PM »
Warning: this doesn't necessarily work if the folders are on a NAS! It definitely doesn't work on my Synology NAS.

This depends on the SAMBA version on your NAS and your Windows version.
If your NAS does not community file system changes correctly to attached clients, problems may occur,

IMatch scans folders during database load to find new folders. At runtime it does not do that but monitors file system event messages. If none are produced by your NAS, Windows / IMatch cannot know that something has changed in the attached devices. Potentially dangerous that.

DDBenson

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2019, 03:42:24 PM »
...

Make sure that background indexing is on under Edit > Preferences > Background Processing (Import new and updates files automatically).
The log file records when IMatch detects changes made to a folder, and also if and which folders are checked for updates. Run the log file in debug mode (see log file) for the most detailed log.

Yes, background indexing is set as you suggest.

Here's what happens: I select a file in LR and make an exaggerated adjustment so as to make the results obvious (blow out exposure and tilt alignment way off level for example). Then I choose Metadata | Update DNG Preview & Metadata. I switch over to IM and after about 30 seconds the little blue icon in upper left corner of that file appears, indicating the file is being updated. But when completed, there is no change. The thumbnail, and the file when opened, remain the same. But I then go to Windows File Explorer or Windows Picture Gallery to view the file and the changes are showing up properly.

Also note that the thumbnails of all older files in IM (added to the database prior to a couple of days ago) appear correctly (that is, they reflect the adjustments made to the file in Lightroom). However, when I open the file, the image does NOT reflect those adjustments.

The Log doesn't reveal anything to me (no warning messages, etc.), however I really don't know what I'm looking at. :-)


Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2019, 03:44:56 PM »
IMatch processes files via the installed WIC DNG codec. Which DNG codec do you use?
When you see changes in Windows you should also see changes in IMatch. Both use the same DNG codec.
It by default favors the preview, unless it is smaller than the minimum size you have configured under Edit > Preferences > Cache.

Note that Adobe changes the DNG format whenever they want. Lr has introduced breaking changes in DNG files on several occasions already.
When the DNG codec installed on your system does not handle the DNG variant your version of Lr produces yet, problems may occur in various applications.
Windows Explorer only uses the thumbnail, which may look different than the preview and will look different than the DNG RAW data decoded by the codec.

See WIC Diagnostics to learn how to see which codecs are installed and used.
I'm not sure how I can help you further. Check the codec, check the cache settings you have made in IMatch. When it worked before but does not work anymore, something outside of IMatch has changed.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 03:47:54 PM by Mario »

DDBenson

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 08:30:11 PM »
... Which DNG codec do you use?

... Note that Adobe changes the DNG format whenever they want. Lr has introduced breaking changes in DNG files on several occasions already.

… Check the cache settings...

Codecs are from FastPictureViewer Codec Pack. I started using this two or three years ago so that DNG files viewed in Windows File Explorer reflected adjustments made in Lightroom. When I re-installed Windows yesterday, and then re-installed Lightroom and IMatch, I immediately checked the files in IMatch to see if IMatch was now recognizing the adjustments made in LR (i.e. had the original issue now been solved?). It was not. So I then also re-installed Fast Picture Viewer, after which I could see Lightroom adjustments when viewed in Windows File Explorer - but still NOT in IMatch.

If Lightroom recently introduced breaking changes in DNG files, then it seems strange that other IMatch users are not reporting a similar issue to mine, as there must be many, many IMatch users that also use Lightroom.

The cache settings are set to the default.

This is from the WIC Diagnostic Report from one of the files:
...
WIC: Testing file 'C:\Users\daleb\OneDrive\Cloud Pictures\2019\2019-03_Orig Files\20190311-170534_Canon EOS M50_6623.dng'
   Thumbnail: Codec 'Adobe DNG Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      () 171x256 pixel in 0 ms.
   Preview: Codec 'Adobe DNG Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      (GetPreview failed (88982F81 The operation is unsupported.).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.
   Full resolution: Codec 'Adobe DNG Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      () 683x1024 pixel in 0 ms.

WIC Result: A codec for this file format is installed and it looks like it fully supports the format. The file does not contain an embedded preview.


IMatch Integrated RAW Processing.

Analyzing image 'C:\Users\daleb\OneDrive\Cloud Pictures\2019\2019-03_Orig Files\20190311-170534_Canon EOS M50_6623.dng'
    Preview: (Format:1, Dimensions: 1024x683) in 0ms. Result: 0
    Original Image: (6288x4056 6012x4008) in 3157ms. Result: 0
...



Thank you for any insights.

Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2019, 08:57:22 PM »
If you have installed the codecs after IMatch has created the thumbnails / cache images, you need to force an update of your files in IMatch (Shift+Ctrl+F5).

DDBenson

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2019, 11:07:21 PM »
If you have installed the codecs after IMatch has created the thumbnails / cache images, you need to force an update of your files in IMatch (Shift+Ctrl+F5).

That's one of the many things I tried prior to finally deciding to revert Windows back to a four-day-previous restore point (which failed into a Blue Screen and ultimately required the complete re-installation of Windows mentioned up-thread).
But, yeah, I did that again after the new installs.

My head hurts now. I'm going to set this aside for awhile....

Thanks again.

Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2019, 08:36:51 AM »
You can send me a sample DNG file to support email address. I can add it to a database and see what I get.

DDBenson

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2019, 10:17:09 PM »
You can send me a sample DNG file to support email address. I can add it to a database and see what I get.

Message and link to files sent to support email address.

Thank you Mario.

Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2019, 09:07:07 AM »
The WIC diagnosis above says:

   Preview: Codec 'Adobe DNG Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      (GetPreview failed (88982F81 The operation is unsupported.).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.


This means that the FPV codec can read (and interpret) the RAW DNG data, but cannot read the preview.
This should explain why you don't see the adjustments made in Lr anymore. These are applied to the preview by Lightroom. They don#t change the RAW data of course.
The thumbnail should be updated by Lr as well, I guess. But this is not used by IMatch (unless there is neither a preview or RAW data extracted).

IMatch loads the preview (if it exists), else loads the full RAW data. The RAW data of course is the DNG RAW data, without all the settings you have applied in Lr.
Did you make any changes in Lr recently? New version installed? New features enabled?

Do you have the latest version of the FPV codecs installed?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 09:13:18 AM by Mario »

Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2019, 01:04:27 PM »
The latest version of the FPV codecs is from 2017.
If Adobe has made breaking changes to DNG after that, the codecs may not be able to handle the files properly.
I would suggest you try with the built-in DNG codec in Windows or the latest DNG codec from Adobe.

I could not download the files you have sent because the link requires me to create a OneDrive / Microsoft account. Won't.

DDBenson

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2019, 04:20:01 PM »
The latest version of the FPV codecs is from 2017.
If Adobe has made breaking changes to DNG after that, the codecs may not be able to handle the files properly.
I would suggest you try with the built-in DNG codec in Windows or the latest DNG codec from Adobe.

When I re-installed Windows and everything else, I started with IMatch first, after which DNG files still were not reflecting adjustments originally made in Lightroom. So I next installed Lightroom and checked the photo files again, but still no change in IMatch. At this point Windows could still not interpret the adjustments made in LR (because, as far as I know, Windows codecs have never been able to do so, which is why I have used Fast Picture Viewer Codec Pack for long time). I next installed Fast Picture Viewer Codec Pack and now Windows showed all adjustments properly, but IMatch still did not.

Is it possible a config file in IM got messed up and is causing the problem, and this file somehow survived the Windows and IMatch re-installs? The Windows re-install saved all "personal" files so maybe there is a hidden file located there that is not getting updated properly? Is there a config file that I can safely delete or purge that will get re-created with new, correct instructions?

Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2019, 05:44:48 PM »
No config file.

IMatch IMatch cannot extract the embedded preview via the DNG codec installed, it cannot show the files as Lr shows them. Lr produces the DNG preview by applying its settings, no other way.
I can only tell more when I have some of your unique DNG files here. I use Lr and Lr CC and I don't see any issues. No IMatch config file involved, no reports from other users so far.

Mario

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Re: Images no longer update in IM after adjustments made in Lightroom
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2019, 06:16:34 PM »
I tested this with my installation.

The problem appears when you export a DNG file with a "compatibility" mode for camera RAW of 6.6 or later.
(Windows does not show the correct preview for any of my test files newer than version 5.4).

Whenever Adobe makes a change to the DNG format which may break other applications (!) they introduce a new compatibility mode...
Use 5.4 if you want to use your files safely with FPV codecs or Windows codecs.
Re-export with these settings and they should look fine in IMatch and elsewhere.

Or install a DNG codec from Adobe that is compatible with the DNG format variant you use in Lr for export.
I could not find one, seems Adobe is not making one anymore...?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 06:21:18 PM by Mario »