Background updating

[HansEverts]

I think my topic is closely related message 134 from Cytochrome..

To be able to work faster I had Background indexing and Write back changes off. I was comparing the number of files with keyword 'country' with the same country under the dynamic categories. Logically they should be the same, so this allowed me to clean up inconsistancies.

As long as the same country existed under keyword and dynamic category, correcting one or the other worked fine. However, Greece appeared as a dynamic category, but not in the keywords panel. I created a new keyword Greece, but did that by mistake directly uner @keywords, rather than under Country.
However, because it took ages for the Greece keyword to appear in the Keywords panel, I switched on Background idexing and Write back. All Greek images had the yellow pen, but because nothing seemed to happen, afer a while I tried a Write back to metadata. I deleted the Greece keyword that was redundant at 15.42 from the category view, but it actually disappeared at 16.24 from that view. At this point, at 17.20 it still did not disappear from the keyword panel and IMatch has been busy updating I don't know what.
Several times the pop up appeared that All background tasks have completed, only to start again immediately after.
So my questions are:
1) how can such a time lag between the information in the Category view and the Keywords panel be prevented and is it inevitable?
2) is there preference between deleting a keyword in the Category view or the Keyword panel (or the thesaurus)
3) would it be possible to be able to see what IMatch is updating and what is pending (I put this also in the wislist).

I have the logfile attached.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[HansEverts]

At 19.00 IMatch is still updating, so I run a diagnostic which comes out all green.. The database starts again, but it is still updating.
I switch off Write back and the systems calms down. I delete the unwanted Greece from the thesaurus, which makes it disappear from the keyword panel, but not from the category view. Nothing happens until I switch on again the rite back.
I guess it is all related to the data in the file versus the database, but does that not impose a hierarchy of where keywords should be changed?

[HansEverts]

After having been stopped by the Windows sleep mode, there are still 1200  files to update early next morning. I try to interrupt the udating with Database/Tools/Clear databae queu. The Pending metadata collection jumps from 1200 to 900.
When the counter reaches zero the database crashes. If necessary I can send the dump file.
I launche the database again and do a diagnostics, which in the optemising stage is long, but all comes out green. However, the updating continues and despite the fact that the Pending metadata indicates zero, the keyword panel continues updating and the Greece keyword is still under the @keywords and not inthe keyword panel, or thesaurus.

Sorry for the length of this story, but I assume the details are relevant.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[cytochrome]

I have often seen this (Updating message lasting for hours and not much activity seen in the Task manager).

In a recent answer Mario said it can be triggered by a problem in a file, ExifTool can't handle it,  sends an error message (F9,O) and stops all further processing).

Did you check if you have any ExifTool message?

Mario: is it possible to have the Exiftool message send to the screen if IM detects this sort of hang?

Francis

[HansEverts]

Since I installed IMatch 5 a few weeks ago I am stil fully occupied with the basics and haven't even touched the Exiftool.

But there is a happy end. After waiting for hours for the deletion of Greece in the thesaurus to take effect in the category panel, I decided to delete it myseif in the latter. To my surprise the whole thing cam back to life. There were again 800 files in the pending metadata collection and they were being dealt with. At this moment everything seems back to normal.
My modest conclusion is that instructions given when Write back and/or background indexing are off, may lead to inconsistencies that can put IMatch in a sort of loop. Sorry, probably does not sound very professional, but I will try to reproduce it.

[BenAW]

Hans

may I suggest you create a dbase with eg 500 or so COPIES of images that are representative for your collection and play and test with that dbase?
Once you're comfortable with IM5 you can recreate a new dbase with your 35000 images.

[HansEverts]

Thanks Ben and I agree, I am tempting the devil.

Just did some tests:
1) switch either automatic write back or background indexing or both off
2) create a test keyword called Test in the categoy view
3) assign some images to Test
4) update metedata manually with the yellow pen
5) delete Test
6) switch automatic write back (or background indexing) on

No problems to report except that the Test keyword during the tests never appears in the keyword panel or thesaurus.

With write back and background on again, creating and deleting keywords in the thesaurus or the panel is almost immediatly reflected in the other, but there is a serious time lag with the Category view.

[Mario]

When you assign images to Test (must be a child category of the @Keywords category), the corresponding keywords should show up immediately in the Keyword Panel for these files. This functionality is independent from whether you let IMatch write out changes automatically or not.

How do you assign files to the category test (are you using the Category Panel or are you working in the Category View directly)?

(...)tests never appears in the keyword panel or thesaurus.

IMatch does not automatically fill your thesaurus. You can enable an option in the Keyword Panel to automatically add keywords you enter there (!) into the thesaurus (to enable this, click on the little arrow next to the Gear button in the toolbar). This functionality is local to the Keyword Panel and is not triggered when you create a new category. Is this what you mean?

[HansEverts]

OK, thanks, I got it. I think I was confused with the terminology.

When I create a keyword under @keywords, and assign to an image, it appears indeed immediately in the section Current keywords of the keyword panel. I was waiting for it to appear in the hierarchical thesaurus. It only gets there when I add the keyword to the thesaurus. To delete the keyword I have to do the same 2 steps the opposite way, i.e. delete in the thesaurus as well as in the category view. I assumed wrongly that thesaurus and cetegory tree are linked.
Thanks

[Mario]

Adding or removing keywords from files will not affect your thesaurus.

The Thesaurus basically stores text in a hierarchical manner for arbitrary metadata tags. You can use it to store headlines, copyright strings, captions as well as keywords. The thesaurus is not linked to a specific metadata tag or anything. Changes you make to the thesaurus do not affect metadata already in your files.

Adding or removing keywords to/from files will not change the contents of your thesaurus.
The workflow is usually the other way round. You add new elements to or edit existing elements thesaurus, and then assign them later to your files in the Keyword Panel. This will in turn create new categories under @Keywords etc.

Usually you fill the thesaurus once from one of the supported data sources, and then add/edit elements as you go.

   
• You can fill the thesaurus via it's import features from external files or the current contents of your database. It supports imports e.g. from IMatch 5's native format, IMatch 3 IPTC thesaurus, IMatch 3 categories and a plain text format used by LR and some of the commercial controlled vocabularies available
• You can add or remove entries to/from the thesaurus via the commands provided in the Metadata and Keyword panels
• If you enable the option, the Keyword Panel will add new keywords you enter there to the thesaurus automatically
• (Assigning/Un-assigning keywords via the @Keywords category does not support this feature)

Keep in mind that changes you make to your thesaurus will not affect keywords already stored in your files. And changing keywords in your files will not affect the contents of your thesaurus.

[HansEverts]

Clear enough, thanks.