Automatic Keywords: WHO (Wer), Person and name

desmooloch · April 13, 2020, 03:03:34 PM

hi,

beforce imatch got this great face recognition feature i used picasa. Now i'm fully switched to imatch and today i saw that keywords (Who, Person and name) are not set automatically anymore.
To be honest: I don't know how they were added past time. But it was usefull for collections.

Now this does not happen anymore. If i tag a person it´s not written to keywords.
Two question:
1) How can i re-enable this?
2) How can other applications (like Picasa) show the tagged persons? Only with keywords? I can´t find any information in exif data...

Thanks!

Best regards,
desmo

Mario · April 13, 2020, 06:16:31 PM

1. See Person Keywords and Categories
2. Let IMatch write back face annotations to XMP. This is usually done automatically when you write-back metadata changes.

Note that XMP supports only one simple text tag for person records.
Keywords assigned to the file are transferred as usual via the keywords in XMP.

Note that Picasa has been abandoned and is not up-to-date with current metadata standards. Do not change metadata in it.
Picasa has nothing that IMatch does not have.

desmooloch · April 13, 2020, 06:30:29 PM

Quote from: Mario on April 13, 2020, 06:16:31 PM
1. See Person Keywords and Categories
2. Let IMatch write back face annotations to XMP. This is usually done automatically when you write-back metadata changes.

Note that XMP supports only one simple text tag for person records.
Keywords assigned to the file are transferred as usual via the keywords in XMP.

Note that Picasa has been abandoned and is not up-to-date with current metadata standards. Do not change metadata in it.
Picasa has nothing that IMatch does not have.

Thanks for your answer!
For 1) i will add Keywords to Person. One question about it: most of my Keywords where added with imatch 2018. There wasnt "Persons", how did it work?

Regarding Picasa: only using it for face detection. Something imatch was missing before 2020. And its mich eaysier to handle. Sorry to say that, but your Workflow needs a little bit more User friendly handling. I will Open a Feature request with my suggestions soon

Best regards,
Desmo

Mario · April 13, 2020, 06:38:28 PM

Older IMatch versions imported the simple face tag and allowed you to make it a keyword.

Quotet, but your Workflow needs a little bit more User friendly handling.

If you don't know about how IMatch manages keywords related to persons, have you read the People help topic yet?
You can follow it step-by-step. There is no real workflow needed.

Just run face detection to find faces in your images.
Then create and assign persons as needed.

Which of these two steps do you find particularly inconvenient or hard?
How do you work with this feature?

desmooloch · April 14, 2020, 06:21:27 AM

i will explain my "workflow" soon (tm).

I took a look why the keywords where written like magic and in imatch 2019 there was a option for it!
Something like "face annotations to keywords". Take look at the attached screenshot.

Please bring it back! I don´t want to add WER Keywords manually to every person i add

plastikman · April 14, 2020, 08:26:30 AM

Quote from: desmooloch on April 13, 2020, 06:30:29 PM
Regarding Picasa: only using it for face detection. Something imatch was missing before 2020. And its mich eaysier to handle. Sorry to say that, but your Workflow needs a little bit more User friendly handling.

I beg to differ regarding ease of use for workflow once you take time to read the excellent help topic Mario referred you to. It is more a matter of what you are used to, and a matter of giving the user more control over the process versus other options. Especially with the new Face Manager addition, the workflow has been incredibly smooth for me. Over the years I have worked with practically any other photo software and IMatch is hard to beat, even for the new Face Recognition. The only easier Face Recognition you will find is arguably Apple Photos and Google Photos, which are in the cloud and give the user practically 0 control over the tagging/classification progress. But they are very good at id-ing faces. I already complimented Mario before that the new edition remind me of 2000s era Apple software under leadership of Steve Jobs (iLife = iPhoto, iMovie etc.).

My advice: cut back on as many tools as possible in your workflow since they always come to bite you at some point.

desmooloch · April 14, 2020, 08:51:38 AM

Quote from: plastikman on April 14, 2020, 08:26:30 AM
Quote from: desmooloch on April 13, 2020, 06:30:29 PM
Regarding Picasa: only using it for face detection. Something imatch was missing before 2020. And its mich eaysier to handle. Sorry to say that, but your Workflow needs a little bit more User friendly handling.

I beg to differ regarding ease of use for workflow once you take time to read the excellent help topic Mario referred you to. It is more a matter of what you are used to, and a matter of giving the user more control over the process versus other options. Especially with the new Face Manager addition, the workflow has been incredibly smooth for me. Over the years I have worked with practically any other photo software and IMatch is hard to beat, even for the new Face Recognition. The only easier Face Recognition you will find is arguably Apple Photos and Google Photos, which are in the cloud and give the user practically 0 control over the tagging/classification progress. But they are very good at id-ing faces. I already complimented Mario before that the new edition remind me of 2000s era Apple software under leadership of Steve Jobs (iLife = iPhoto, iMovie etc.).

My advice: cut back on as many tools as possible in your workflow since they always come to bite you at some point.

Before Imatch 2020 it was not possible for me to "cut back" picasa because imatch had no person AI. Thats why i used picasa. Now i switched, but handling is much more complicated. Face Manager is a good start, but i'm missing some basic functions (other topic...)

Mario · April 14, 2020, 11:45:03 AM

Quote from: desmooloch on April 14, 2020, 06:21:27 AM
Please bring it back! I don´t want to add WER Keywords manually to every person i add

I cannot bring that back. That would be a big step back anyway.

You let IMatch detect faces and assign a few persons. The rest is done by the AI.
No need to use keywords if you don't want to.
But then, adding one or more keywords when creating a person is not that much work, or is it? Do you have thousands of persons?

When you still use Google Picasa and let it store faces in XMP regions, IMatch imports these and maps them to persons automatically via the tag.
This is explained in the help so you know that already. And if you have added one or more keywords to that person (or do it later) you get much more than you ever had in IMatch 2019.

Also, all faces are managed and accessible as before, by their tag, in the Collection View.

All that is explained in great detail in the People help topic.

I would not recommend to use Picasa, especially when you let it write to your files. Google has abandoned it years ago and the metadata handling is, well, unsatisfactory.

PaulS · April 16, 2020, 04:09:32 PM

Quote from: Mario on April 14, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
I would not recommend to use Picasa, especially when you let it write to your files. Google has abandoned it years ago and the metadata handling is, well, unsatisfactory.

Agreed, Picasa handles metadata very poorly. I am in the process of moving face tags from Picasa to IMatch and then plan to use only IMatch in the future.

My approach to preserve the original file metadata is to write face tags in Picasa to a copy of the file which is in a parallel directory to the original file. I then use EXIFtool Command Processor in IMatch to copy only the face tags from the Picasa file to the original file.

It is a bit cumbersome and takes several steps including rescans and writebacks, but it can be done if you want to preserve the integrity of your metadata.

desmooloch · April 16, 2020, 05:40:00 PM

Quote from: PaulS on April 16, 2020, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: Mario on April 14, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
I would not recommend to use Picasa, especially when you let it write to your files. Google has abandoned it years ago and the metadata handling is, well, unsatisfactory.

Agreed, Picasa handles metadata very poorly. I am in the process of moving face tags from Picasa to IMatch and then plan to use only IMatch in the future.

My approach to preserve the original file metadata is to write face tags in Picasa to a copy of the file which is in a parallel directory to the original file. I then use EXIFtool Command Processor in IMatch to copy only the face tags from the Picasa file to the original file.

It is a bit cumbersome and takes several steps including rescans and writebacks, but it can be done if you want to preserve the integrity of your metadata.

I switched from picasa to imatch without problems using my files with face tags from picasa.
What kind of metadata will be "deintegrated" using Picasa?

Mario · April 16, 2020, 06:37:52 PM

Picasa supports only a subset of XMP, no synchronization between XMP and EXIF/GPS/IPTC, has problems with maker notes afaik etc.
Picasa was never something Google has put much work in. Only to get a user base and then move them into the Google cloud where they can monetize them.

PaulS · April 20, 2020, 01:23:01 AM

Quote from: desmooloch on April 16, 2020, 05:40:00 PM
I switched from picasa to imatch without problems using my files with face tags from picasa.
What kind of metadata will be "deintegrated" using Picasa?

Here are some of the modifications that Picasa made that led me to develop an alternative method for importing face metadata:

- removed ~25 Nikon custom maker notes which contained camera configuration information for the picture
- removed EXIF time zone offset and date time digitized
- added GPS altitude but at sea level, not the correct altitude
- added IPTC metadata which had no discernible value