Author Topic: Another Premier...  (Read 3187 times)

Mario

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Another Premier...
« on: July 07, 2017, 09:41:52 AM »
Getting rid of the ancient BASIC scripting language was one milestone for IMatch 2017.
At the same time, this development removed one of the last obstacles that prevented me from taking on another big task: Migrating IMatch to 64-bit.

IMatch is still a 32-bit application, and in most situations this is perfectly fine. IMatch can use up to 3.5 GB of RAM, which is plenty for an application as frugal as IMatch.
But databases seem to get bigger and bigger (in terms of how many images people manage) and images also get bigger and bigger (megapixels and RAM needed to manage them).

Having a native IMatch version that runs as a true 64-bit application would have many advantages.
But getting there is truly complicated. I won't bother you with the technical details and challenges.

To make this short: Over the past six to eight weeks I worked very, very hard on this migration.
And this morning, at 02:00 AM, IMatch 2017 64-bit started successfully for the first time:

This is from the Windows Task Manager.



And this is the Splash screen (I waited long to see that):



This is massive.
It will take some time before I complete my tests. And I will make this available for beta testing for interested users in a few weeks.

Oh, as one of the first tests: I could load a 30,000 x 20,000 pixel TIF panorama image without problems. In 1.5 seconds  :)
This was impossible before due to limitations in the 32-bit image library. Now I use a 64-bit image library, which has no such limits...

« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 09:48:48 AM by Mario »

Lincoln

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 11:06:06 AM »
That really is great news  8) Imatch just keeps getting better and better. Being able to handle larger file sizes is a big bonus for me!

herman

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 11:27:44 AM »
My congratulations for you! <smiley with flags and cake>
I had a big smile on my face reading this, realizing how much you must have been doing behind the curtains to arrive at this point.
I think this is a really BIG step forward.
Enjoy!

Herman.

Menace

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 11:47:21 AM »
This is really a big step in the right direction. Great!  :D

sinus

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 11:49:46 AM »
Also my congratulations. -thumb up-

For a no-clue-man:

What else advantages has this 64-bit version?
I wonder, because I have really no clue, just curious.
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

thrinn

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 12:14:43 PM »
Congratulations from me, also!

Thorsten
Win 10 / 64, IMatch 2018, IMA

oldhank

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 02:27:12 PM »
Great News!!!!

dnh

Jingo

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 02:54:50 PM »
Yup... what a great addition... Thx Mario.. you unrelenting support to make IMatch even better is inspiring!

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 03:29:07 PM »
(...)
For a no-clue-man:
What else advantages has this 64-bit version?
I wonder, because I have really no clue, just curious.

The 64-bit edition of IMatch can use a lot more more RAM (thousands of Gigabytes, if available and necessary).

Before IMatch could not load large (usually) panorama files with 30,000 pixels or more in either dimension. Because this requires several Gigabytes of memory in a single 'block' and Windows cannot deliver than to 32-bit applications.

IMatch 64-bit has a lot more room for caching files for the Viewer. And some of the algorithms and features I'm looking into require massive amounts of memory.

I can also enable some extra optimizations in the way IMatch is built which only work for 64-bit applications, gaining more performance for critical operations like category calculations etc.

In short: 64-bit IMatch will be good for you  ;)

jch2103

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 05:27:45 PM »
In short: 64-bit IMatch will be good for you  ;)

Excellent!
John

medgeek

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2017, 09:01:16 PM »
Hi Mario.  The move to 64 bits is indeed a big step.  You've said in the past that you weren't interested in producing a Mac OS version, but it seems to me that having a 64 bit version is at least a small step in the direction of a Mac version, one where the data files would be binary compatible between Mac OS and Windows.  I'm not asking for any official announcement one way or another, but I'd be interested in your thoughts about this.

--George

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 09:35:52 AM »
The database system I use also exists in versions for several UNIX flavors, MacOS, Android iOS etc. That's not the problem.

Windows software and Apple software are very different. I would have to migrate/rewrite maybe 60% to 80% of IMatch. An experienced Max developer told me once (when IMatch was smaller and less complex) that this would require two experienced developers at least one year. Cost: About 150,000US. Do you think I could sell enough copies of IMatch for Mac OS to cover the cost? I don't.

And it would be against the trend anyway.
Everything is moving into the cloud and into so-called SaaS mode (software as a service).

You want to use a DAM, right? And you want to run it on whatever device you have, right? Windows PC? Apple iPad? Linux PC? Smart phone? Your DAM should work everywhere. The platform/OS should not be an issue.

That is why IMatch Anywhere is so important. You can already access IMatch databases on any device: smart phones, tablets, PCs running under Windows, Mac Os, iOS, Android or Linux. Future versions of IMatch Anywhere will bring support for database modification (metadata, rating, label, categories, attributes, upload etc.) - directly in your web browser. It does not matter anymore which hardware you use.

Only IMWS itself is still bound to Windows. But here the cloud is the future.

This does not mean that you hand over all your private data to some greedy company, mind.

But it means that, if you need a Windows PC to run some software (IMWS in this case) you just rent a virtual PC in the cloud. Companies like Amazon, Google and Microsoft make this very easy, and very cheap. You only pay for what you use, which means that you can rent a Windows PC for free or maybe 2 to 5 dollars per month. You have total control over this machine, can install any software you like, and then access it from your Windows PC, your iPad or smart phone. From everywhere. It's automatically backed up, and you can start and stop it as you like. If you don't use it, it does not cost money. And if you need more processors or more RAM or more disk space, yo can just change some settings. Awesome.

I use this for testing for some time and it works just great. Many companies don't have data centers anymore, they just rent what they need from one of the big vendors. And this will become an alternative for 'normal' users too very soon I think.

Run IMatch/IMWS on the rented PC and access it with your web browser from any device.

medgeek

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2017, 08:45:07 PM »
Thanks for the thoughtful response, Mario.  What's to prevent google, ms or amazon from going through your data on the rented virtual machine?

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 08:32:15 AM »
Thanks for the thoughtful response, Mario.  What's to prevent google, ms or amazon from going through your data on the rented virtual machine?
If you rent a machine, only you have access. If you rent a Windows or Linux VM, you are of course free to use whatever encryption schemes are available. Both Linux and Windows support fully encrypted disks and nobody can overcome that. Or at least not with reasonable amounts of time and resources.

I use cloud storage to store backups. But I encrypt the data locally before I copy it into the cloud. Very comfortable if you combine software like, for example, BoxCrytper ( (German product  :) ) with something like Dropbox, OneDrive or GoogleDrive.

sinus

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 08:43:51 AM »
I use cloud storage to store backups. But I encrypt the data locally before I copy it into the cloud. Very comfortable if you combine software like, for example, BoxCrytper ( (German product  :) ) with something like Dropbox, OneDrive or GoogleDrive.

I I use BoxCrypter, I can encrypt also a IMatch DB and also files like photos?
If I then use a cloud, this is quite sure, isn't it?

This would be a solution to use clouds and be quite sure.
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2017, 08:48:57 AM »
Quote
I I use BoxCrypter, I can encrypt also a IMatch DB and also files like photos?

BoxCryptor (and similar solutions) work like this:

1. They allow you to create  new drive on your system. The contents of this drive are stored in a folder on your hard disk. But everything you store on that drive is automatically encrypted. If BoxCryptor is not running, the data is inaccessible. If you don't have the password and key for BoxCryptor, you cannot decrypt the data.

2. If you now create the BoxCrytpr folder in your local Dropbox or OneDrive or GoogleDrive folder, the data is not only encrypted, but will be copied into the cloud in this encrypted form. Your cloud vendor will only ever see the encrypted data. Impossible to decrypt or look at. At least until we have Quantum computers ::)

There are numerous magazine articles out there. Give Google a spin to find out more.

sinus

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2017, 08:51:15 AM »
Thanks, Mario

I will do this, sounds cool.
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2017, 06:49:45 PM »
Work on the 64-bit version is progressing nicely.
I worked several days with it already, creating databases, using existing databases up to 400,000 files, doing all operations and testing features...

The Viewer has now a lot more room to breathe. I've yanked up the limits for the 64 bit version and it happily consumes 5 or 10 GB of RAM (if available and sensible) to pre-load and cache files. Especially if you work with large panorama files or images taken with those fancy 64 MP digital backs, this is a massive improvement.

I've also worked on the general caching and pre-loaded for both 32 and 64 bit versions and I think I could improve it a bit. Good for users who use IMatch on computers with less memory or a entry- or mid-level graphic card.

The really memory critical functions (Viewer, Slide Show, Design & Print for large publications or formats) work flawlessly in 64-bit. IMatch can now use all the memory available on your system.


jch2103

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2017, 08:24:56 PM »
Excellent!

I've also worked on the general caching and pre-loaded for both 32 and 64 bit versions and I think I could improve it a bit. Good for users who use IMatch on computers with less memory or a entry- or mid-level graphic card.

The really memory critical functions (Viewer, Slide Show, Design & Print for large publications or formats) work flawlessly in 64-bit. IMatch can now use all the memory available on your system.

This is also very good. The only downside (for users) of 64 bit versions is that they can indeed take advantage of lots of memory; the consequence of course is that we'll all want more memory in our computers... In some cases (e.g., my 5 year old Sony Vaio laptop w/ 8 GB) that will likely lead to hardware replacements a bit sooner than later.
John

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2017, 08:55:09 PM »
This might be. Memory is cheap these days.
But on your 8 GB system the 64-bit IMatch should show better performance already, especially in the Viewer, Slide Show etc. 8 GB RAM is great.

jch2103

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2017, 11:28:04 PM »
This might be. Memory is cheap these days.
But on your 8 GB system the 64-bit IMatch should show better performance already, especially in the Viewer, Slide Show etc. 8 GB RAM is great.

I'm not complaining. Just observing that upgrades (including hardware) are inevitable after a while, including on systems where memory is capped. I'll certainly be interested in checking out 64-bit IMatch, including on my 8GB laptop.
John

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2017, 06:47:49 PM »
I'm not complaining. Just observing that upgrades (including hardware) are inevitable after a while, including on systems where memory is capped. I'll certainly be interested in checking out 64-bit IMatch, including on my 8GB laptop.

I buy a new PC every 3 to 4 years. But I use it 12-16 hours per day, 7 days a week...

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2017, 06:58:06 PM »
IMatch 64-bit Viewer:

IMatch is now able, without problems (as per my recent tests) to display even 8 64 Megapixel files in the Viewer side-by-side, with enough memory to spare for caching. Each of these files requires between 260 and 310 MB RAM (!), which means that "one screeen" in the Viewer needs ~ 2.5 GB RAM just to show it. One page!
But it just rolls now, even when I page through (the cache files were already generated).

Needless to say that this is also good news if you just view one image at a time, because IMatch can cache more in advance and can keep more images in memory, ready when you move forwards and backwards.

Aubrey

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 11:26:24 AM »
When do you expect the product to be available for beta testing?

I would be interested to be a beta tester.

Thank,
Aubrey.

My machine is:
OS Name   Microsoft Windows 10 Pro
Version   10.0.14393 Build 14393
Other OS Description    Not Available
OS Manufacturer   Microsoft Corporation
System Name   
System Manufacturer   Hewlett-Packard
System Model   HP Z820 Workstation
System Type   x64-based PC
System SKU   LJ452AV
Processor   Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2687W 0 @ 3.10GHz, 3101 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
Processor   Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2687W 0 @ 3.10GHz, 3101 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date   Hewlett-Packard J63 v03.91, 17-Oct-16
SMBIOS Version   2.7
Embedded Controller Version   255.255
BIOS Mode   Legacy
BaseBoard Manufacturer   Hewlett-Packard
BaseBoard Model   Not Available
BaseBoard Name   Base Board
Platform Role   Workstation
Secure Boot State   Unsupported
PCR7 Configuration   Binding Not Possible
Windows Directory   C:\WINDOWS
System Directory   C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device   \Device\HarddiskVolume1
Locale   United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer   Version = "10.0.14393.206"
User Name   
Time Zone   GTB Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM)   32.0 GB
Total Physical Memory   31.9 GB
Available Physical Memory   21.6 GB
Total Virtual Memory   31.9 GB
Available Virtual Memory   20.4 GB
Page File Space   0 bytes
Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions   Yes
Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions   Yes
Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware   No
Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection   Yes

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 11:46:54 AM »
I will make the 64-bit version available as soon as I consider it ready. All users with a license for IMatch 2017 will be able to download and try it. Users with a 'spare' PC preferred. This is not for production yet.

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2017, 06:54:30 PM »
Since today IMatch Webservices™ also exists in a 64-bit version. Yeah!  :)



This is from the IMatch WebViewer About screen.

ColinIM

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2017, 09:58:47 PM »
A 64-bit version of IMatch will be a superb enhancement Mario.

Applause from me too for this possibility  :)

I make a lot of panoramas .... occasionally stitching together as many as 8 frames into one huge TIF file.  I haven't had any memory problems so far, but that would certainly change if (as is likely) I upgrade my trusty 12 megapixel Nikon D700 camera to a D750 with its 24 megapixel sensor.  And nowadays even 24 megapixels is a modestly-sized sensor!
Colin P.
I feed my IMatch using: DxO PhotoLab | Nikon Capture NX2 | Vuescan | PanoramaStudio 3
(I live in the UK but my body-clock is stuck somewhere in the USA)

sinus

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2017, 10:06:47 PM »
A 64-bit version of IMatch will be a superb enhancement Mario.

Applause from me too for this possibility  :)

I make a lot of panoramas .... occasionally stitching together as many as 8 frames into one huge TIF file.  I haven't had any memory problems so far, but that would certainly change if (as is likely) I upgrade my trusty 12 megapixel Nikon D700 camera to a D750 with its 24 megapixel sensor.  And nowadays even 24 megapixels is a modestly-sized sensor!

I applause also to Mario, seems to be a good thing, this 64bit-stuff.  :D

BTW:
I own a D750 since, say 1 year, the other one has been stolen. As this occured, I bought a new one, the same model.
For me, who has started with a Nikon F2, this D750 is the best camera I ever owned. OK, I did not have the "professional" expensive digital Nikons, D5 and so on, but this piece of camera is really very good.
Combined with good lenses ... great!
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

Mario

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2017, 10:13:17 PM »
A 64-bit version of IMatch will be a superb enhancement Mario.
(...)
I upgrade my trusty 12 megapixel Nikon D700 camera to a D750 with its 24 megapixel sensor.  And nowadays even 24 megapixels is a modestly-sized sensor!

The D750 is excellent. And 12 Megapixel is the typical resolution of a smart phone these days  ;)  OK, the lenses cannot compete with 'real glass' but I still find it amazing what the Sony sensor / lenses in my bq smart phone can do.

I've tested the 64-Bit version of IMatch with images taken with high-end 50 MP cameras which produce images at about 10,000 pixels and it works. Panoramas up to to 32K pixels also work. NOTE: DirectX used to display images in the Viewer and QVP is usually limited by the amount of memory in the graphic card. A typical 100 US$ graphic card handles images up to 16384 pixels in either dimension. IMatch considers this and scales images larger than that down accordingly. As graphic cards get bigger, this limit will shift.

sinus

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Re: Another Premier...
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2017, 11:20:28 PM »
A 64-bit version of IMatch will be a superb enhancement Mario.
(...)
I upgrade my trusty 12 megapixel Nikon D700 camera to a D750 with its 24 megapixel sensor.  And nowadays even 24 megapixels is a modestly-sized sensor!

The D750 is excellent. And 12 Megapixel is the typical resolution of a smart phone these days  ;)  OK, the lenses cannot compete with 'real glass' but I still find it amazing what the Sony sensor / lenses in my bq smart phone can do.

I've tested the 64-Bit version of IMatch with images taken with high-end 50 MP cameras which produce images at about 10,000 pixels and it works. Panoramas up to to 32K pixels also work. NOTE: DirectX used to display images in the Viewer and QVP is usually limited by the amount of memory in the graphic card. A typical 100 US$ graphic card handles images up to 16384 pixels in either dimension. IMatch considers this and scales images larger than that down accordingly. As graphic cards get bigger, this limit will shift.

I do now know, if we can this compare. But I have bought lately a Sony Cybershot DSC HX 90V. This is a very small compact-camera and it creates very good images (though only jpg) and they offer a lot inside the cam, to convert, edit and so further the pictures. Sony seems to make a good job.  :D
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus