How to set categories from vesions to masters?

[YuriyVZ]

I configure CR2 files as masters and JPG versions (and visual proxy). But in IMatch 3, I set categories only to JPG. How I can copy categories from versions to master?
I try "show all versions" и list of JPG files, but in versions tab, I can't select masters and set categories for it.

[Mario]

IMatch always propagates metadata (including categories) from masters to versions - never the other way round.

Note that there is no need to make a master (e.g. a RAW) a real master. You can also consider the JPEG the master. IMatch has no fixed rules, use whatever works best for your workflow.

If you have only assigned categories to versions but not to masters, and now you have changed your mind you're in a spot of trouble and have to do some manual work.

I suggest this:

** Make a copy of your files and database.
** Copy one of your folders containing masters and versions. This way you have something you can play with without risking problems.

Now...

Temporarily disable your master relation.
Setup a relation which makes the JPEG the master. Make double sure you match the correct files.
In this relation, only activate categories if you don't want to copy other data. Pay special attention to @Keywords, you probably don't want to include this.
Refresh the relations so IMatch knows which files are now masters and which are versions.
Select all masters (e.g. using a file format filter).
Manually propagate from the masters to the versions using <F4><R> or the corresponding menu command.
Check that all categories have been assigned.
Disable your temporary relation rule.
Re-enable your real relation rule.

File versioning in a complex subject. Make sure you understand which of your files you (!) consider masters, and what you want to do with masters, versions and the metadata. There are many different approaches in use - it all depends on what you want to achieve.

[YuriyVZ]

There is no way to select all masters of selected versions?

Note that there is no need to make a master (e.g. a RAW) a real master. You can also consider the JPEG the master. IMatch has no fixed rules, use whatever works best for your workflow.

I decide to use RAW as master because vesions can be JPG or TIF some times. Also I use JPG and TIF as buddy of RAW. But maybe it better to set JPG and TIF as masters and RAW as versions (and CRW, CR2, THM as buddy). It's two relations, but easy to manage. And no need to set visual proxy.

Thank you! I try it...

File versioning in a complex subject. Make sure you understand which of your files you (!) consider masters, and what you want to do with masters, versions and the metadata. There are many different approaches in use - it all depends on what you want to achieve.

Yes, versions and buddy is great tools!

[Mario]

There is no such command. It was never requested so my guess is that it is not needed. The masters may be in totally different folders and thus not in the current scope (file window) and thus not selectable. The same is true for versions, they also can be distributed over the entire database. You can show the master and it's versions together (also multiple) via the Show all Versions command. You can find the master for a version via the Goto Master command or via the Version Panel.

If you consider the RAW the master and have TIFF and JPEG files with categories other than the master and now you want to somehow copy the categories from one or more versions back to the master, you can do it manually, using the idea I outlined above or you write yourself a script which understands your workflow, knows how to find the master(s) for a set of selected files and then copies all or some categories. This is not hard to do, but way too specific to implement as a general feature.

[YuriyVZ]

There is no such command. It was never requested so my guess is that it is not needed. The masters may be in totally different folders and thus not in the current scope (file window) and thus not selectable. The same is true for versions, they also can be distributed over the entire database. You can show the master and it's versions together (also multiple) via the Show all Versions command. You can find the master for a version via the Goto Master command or via the Version Panel.

Goto Mater good for one file, not for hundreds or thousands.

If you consider the RAW the master and have TIFF and JPEG files with categories other than the master and now you want to somehow copy the categories from one or more versions back to the master, you can do it manually, using the idea I outlined above or you write yourself a script which understands your workflow, knows how to find the master(s) for a set of selected files and then copies all or some categories. This is not hard to do, but way too specific to implement as a general feature.

Now I have JPEG or TIFF, but not both.
My main problem. I have more then 30 000 files from where categories set for JPEG (TIF)  and about 2000 new files added in IMatch5 and categories set to RAW (as masters).
I think it is  to ways to solve it:
1. Write some script to set categories from JPEGs to RAW in old files. It's not problem, but need some time to test.
2. Copy categories from RAW (master now) to JPEGs for 2000 files. Then set JPEG (and TIF) as masters. Also I need some changes in categories with formulas, but it is only about 30 categories.

I think 2 is better way.

Thank you! When I make this topic yesterday, I don't understand my main problem, now I do 

[Ferdinand]

I've written a script that copies ratings and labels from a version to the master and other versions.  If you're a scripter then you could hack it to copy categories.  It's in the script gallery.  Or you could do as Mario suggests.  Others have done it.  It just requires some care.

Note that there is no need to make a master (e.g. a RAW) a real master. You can also consider the JPEG the master. IMatch has no fixed rules, use whatever works best for your workflow.

Yes, that's true, but there have been some long threads about the challenges the JPG-as-master approach presents.  I'd only do it temporarily.

[YuriyVZ]

I've written a script that copies ratings and labels from a version to the master and other versions.  If you're a scripter then you could hack it to copy categories.  It's in the script gallery.  Or you could do as Mario suggests.  Others have done it.  It just requires some care.

Thank you! I try to use another you script:
https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=519.0

Yes, that's true, but there have been some long threads about the challenges the JPG-as-master approach presents.  I'd only do it temporarily.

Can you give me links to this threads? Why not to use JPG as master?

[YuriyVZ]

Can you give me links to this threads? Why not to use JPG as master?

Yes, it will be a problem when JPG is master and versions...
I will be good idea to use not only file name as mask for masters, but folder name to!

[Mario]

I will be good idea to use not only file name as mask for masters, but folder name to!

This cannot really work. IMatch searches every folder in your database for files matching your master specification. Then it searches this folder, it's sub-folders etc. to find versions - again using your specification. Limiting the search for masters to specific folders would be too limiting and most users would never need such a thing.  As it is now, IMatch supports masters in every folder.

The classic way to structure your files is to keep the masters within the same folder, or some sub-folder hierarchy. Some users keep their versions in separate hierarchies or even multiple versions in multiple separate hierarchies (off-kine storage, remote storage). Al this is doable in IMatch 5 without problems. Also the various schemes employed by various imaging and editing applications can be easily handled by IMatch. This includes also video and audio applications which spread versions like weeds all over the place.

If all the flexible features implemented in IMatch File Versioning are not enough for your specific file layout and workflow, maybe switching to a more standard workflow and file layout will be the better solution in the long term. The simpler your file layout is, the easier it is to maintain and the more applications you can use without the need to add new features or write scripts.


Your "two potential masters from which I want to copy back categories to the now real master" is uncommon but not unique. You can easily adapt my trick from above to both JPEG and TIFF. Just do one at a time. One rule for JPEG masters. Then one for TIF masters. Copy cats. Then delete the temporary rules. 30,000 files is not that much and should not take more than an hour or two.

[YuriyVZ]

This cannot really work. IMatch searches every folder in your database for files matching your master specification. Then it searches this folder, it's sub-folders etc. to find versions - again using your specification.

I organize my files like this:
photo_session_name\source
photo_session_name\final
Files in this two folders has the same name (extantion can be CRW, CR2, JPG, TIF in source and JPG or TIF in final). And there are always one file in source folder and one related file in finale folder, now I use buddy for it.

If I need more than one version file I create new folder, for example:
photo_session_name\for_web

Limiting the search for masters to specific folders would be too limiting and most users would never need such a thing.  As it is now, IMatch supports masters in every folder.

Not specific folders, but use part of folder name in master mask, "*\final\*.jpg". Maybe I can do it now? Master file name is full name or short name? I cann't test it right now...

Your "two potential masters from which I want to copy back categories to the now real master" is uncommon but not unique. You can easily adapt my trick from above to both JPEG and TIFF. Just do one at a time. One rule for JPEG masters. Then one for TIF masters. Copy cats. Then delete the temporary rules. 30,000 files is not that much and should not take more than an hour or two.

Yes, already create the rules for JPG and TIF.
But now not sure what to use as master my Source or my Final folder...

[Mario]

IMatch cannot look in specific folders. Masters are found by name/extension.

You can restrict the search for versions to specific folders, including folder patterns. This allows you to specify the final folder relative to the folder where a master has been found. Check out the help for File Relations (just press <F1> while in the dialog) to see how the folder pattens work and how you can use them

[YuriyVZ]

IMatch cannot look in specific folders. Masters are found by name/extension.

You can restrict the search for versions to specific folders, including folder patterns. This allows you to specify the final folder relative to the folder where a master has been found. Check out the help for File Relations (just press <F1> while in the dialog) to see how the folder pattens work and how you can use them

Yes, it's no problem to setting rules for versions. The problem with masters.

Ok. I change to:
photo_session_name\source - RAW, JPEGs - versions
photo_session_name\final - JPEG - masters
photo_session_name\final\ver - JPEGs - versions

And use list of folders for versions:
{p1}\source
{p0}\versions

In this case JPEGs in source and ver folders never sets as master, because there are no match for versions folders.

 

[Mario]

You seem to be using a very complicated file layout.
If you mix versions and masters in the same folders and also use the same extensions for both masters and versions, IMatch File Relations may not be able to help you. It can only do so much, after all. Consider to change your file layout so that masters and versions can be identified unambiguously.

[YuriyVZ]

You seem to be using a very complicated file layout.
If you mix versions and masters in the same folders and also use the same extensions for both masters and versions, IMatch File Relations may not be able to help you. It can only do so much, after all. Consider to change your file layout so that masters and versions can be identified unambiguously.

Is it complicated? But IMatch it's not good for IMatch relations!
photo_session_name\source - RAW, JPEGs - versions
photo_session_name\final - JPEGs - masters
photo_session_name\ver - JPEGs - versions

Now I change to:
photo_session_name\source - RAW, JPEGs - versions
photo_session_name\final - JPEG - masters
photo_session_name\final\ver - JPEGs - versions

And relations works as I expected!

Thank you, you can close this topic!