Author Topic: Workflow with Lightroom  (Read 5800 times)

Erik

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Workflow with Lightroom
« on: June 19, 2014, 07:16:05 PM »
I think it would be helpful for those of us here who regularly use Lightroom and IMatch together could post information about their workflow and any tips they might have.

There are certainly many methods of doing it, so feel free to add yours.  It could be beneficial to all of us.  I know as a LR user myself that I'm always looking for ideas.  I'll start on the next post.

-Erik




P.S.  I think it could be useful if others who might use other RAW processors could potentially start similar threads, at least for the most common ones.


sinus

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2014, 07:48:09 PM »
A good idea!

I do use IMatch.
And Photoshop CS6
I do have LR 4.4, but I will start to work, when I have migrated really from IM3.5 to IM5.

I think, that I will to the line with XMP-files. If I do so (if I understand it correct), then I must not have a DB for LR, because all information is in the xmp-file.

In LR I will only edit the image, no stars or Metadata, this I will do all in IM5.

First, I will integrate a picture into IM. Then give some collections, cats, Metadata (all with RAWs, NEF in my case).
Then I will edit some of the pics (maybe 20%) with LR, create some jpgs, and end with a master (NEF) and Version (JPG) in IM5.

I will also do some stacking, say, one event is  a stack.

I think also, that I will work with proxies, but I am not sure, and there is still a feature request open from me, what would help a lot, from my point of view

https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=1614.0

So, finally, I will use PS and LR only for editing pictues, all the DAM-stuff I will do in IM5.



Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

Erik

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2014, 07:53:51 PM »
I've been using LR since version 3 and have spent a lot of time reconciling its use in conjunction with IM, which I've been using long before I ever tried LR.


My general workflow is to

1. Catalog all my images in IM, which mostly focuses on keywording (and geotagging with GeoSetter), moving, and culling images.  I generally make sure all my RAW files are in a catalogged state and that all pending metadata updates are written before I shift over to LR.

1.b. During the primary steps of 1. and the culling process, I identify photos that I want to process in Lightroom and label them with an XMP label color (Red in my case, occasionally a second color if I want to indicate a special process, e.g. black and white).  Again, I make certain that my images have their metadata up to date.


2. In Lightroom I maintain one global catalog/library of all my photos that is updated when I have new images or if I have marked images to edit in IM through a color label. 

In Lightroom I have a couple of collections setup that are based on label color so that if I've marked images in IM they automatically show up in those collections.  Alternatively, I can use the hierarchical keywords I applied in IM or the folder tree to process images if I choose to defer to LR to select images to process.  Sometimes I don't know until I've applied a preset.

3.  In editing photos in LR I make sure the edits are written to the XMP when I am done with the images.  I also change label colors for the RAW files (From their original color to green) to indicate to IMatch that the file has been processed in LR.  Developed images are exported to fit my version relationship in IM5 (which carries over from one I had using Ferdinand's script in IM3.6). 

3.b.  I do work with DNG files since my camera shoots in that format, but I've quite updating the previews.  I tend to crop a lot of photos but I want my RAW files in IM to in essence truly represent the raw data.  I'm not disciplined enough to save an uncropped preview to my DNG files, plus it seems that previews cannot be automatically written to DNG files anyway.  Instead I output JPG, TIFF, or PSD files (pending the need for further edits) if I want to see the final results.

4.  Back in IM images that are processed are now labeled a different color.  I suppose I could utilize the indexing option to automatically throw updated images into a collection, but I'm still stuck in my older workflow, which was similar to what I'm describing. It does help too that if images are only partially processed, then I don't necessarily label them in LR because they weren't brought to a finished state. 

In IM, the processed images are categorized to indicate I used LR on them.  Information for the versions is propagated when new versions are brought into the database (I kind of which this was automatic when a new file is imported, but that is already in the feature request section).  An attribute that briefly describes the processing if anything non-standard is done is added.  The thought there is that if I ever reprocess or use different software I can have a basic idea of what was done (not step by step).  This attribute is especially important for versions which may have gone from LR to Photoshop to Nik Software, etc.  It's actually quite quick and useful when people have asked how I got from RAW file to the final version JPG.  Once I am done, the color labels are removed from the RAW images so the process can proceed again. 

As am amateur, I don't use ratings for much except to indicate a best version if that is important.  In IM3.6 I had actually used a Yellow label to accommodate a complicated filter set I had for collapsing version sets.  I don't need that any more and find it easier to manage to have the color labels as temporary.  I do not use visual proxies preferring to see the original images.  The versioning system in IM5 makes it easy for me to see that there are versions in there now anyway.

Ultimately, it seems a little tedious, but it isn't with IM5. The key things I follow when using LR is to make sure:

1. You don't really change anything in your library in LR.  I only write developing data (that I'm aware of) in LR.  IM is my DAM. 
2. Do not let both programs be open at the same time.  I've had issues where LR and IM essentially battle and the file ends up losing... metadata or develop settings.

Since my workflow is XMP Label based, it only really works well if you don't use color labels for other purposes.  You could use hierarchical keywords or ratings in a similar manner, but I hate the idea of adding temporary keywords just to "pass" files to other software.  I feel like it's less of a big deal if I ultimately forget to remove a label color than if I forget to remove a temporary keyword.  Plus, color labels stand out  in most software.


Anyway, I'll be curious to see what others do.  I know there are some who work with new LR catalogs/libraries each time they edit among other workflows.

-Erik

Erik

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2014, 07:57:05 PM »
A good idea!

I do use IMatch.
And Photoshop CS6
I do have LR 4.4, but I will start to work, when I have migrated really from IM3.5 to IM5.

I think, that I will to the line with XMP-files. If I do so (if I understand it correct), then I must not have a DB for LR, because all information is in the xmp-file.

In LR I will only edit the image, no stars or Metadata, this I will do all in IM5.

First, I will integrate a picture into IM. Then give some collections, cats, Metadata (all with RAWs, NEF in my case).
Then I will edit some of the pics (maybe 20%) with LR, create some jpgs, and end with a master (NEF) and Version (JPG) in IM5.

I will also do some stacking, say, one event is  a stack.

I think also, that I will work with proxies, but I am not sure, and there is still a feature request open from me, what would help a lot, from my point of view

https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=1614.0

So, finally, I will use PS and LR only for editing pictues, all the DAM-stuff I will do in IM5.

You beat me...  Actually, the biggest drawback in LR for me is that you are basically tied to having a DB to use it.  Of course as I mentioned in my previous post, the key is not to actually use it (much); I do use it for XMP develop settings and Labels (because of my workflow).  I do not use it for stacking, keywords, etc. other than in what I'd say is a read-only purpose to browse.

Ferdinand

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2014, 05:13:38 PM »
2. Do not let both programs be open at the same time.  I've had issues where LR and IM

IMHO this is the key point.  And moreover, be sure to write out your XMP changes in one program before you switch to the other, and when you switch to the other, refresh XMP before you do anything.  It's important to follow this sequence for both programs. 

In LR there is a catalogue setting that automatically saves edit settings in the sidecar, and while it might slow things down a little, I think it helps to have this on, so that you don't forget to save the settings in XMP before you exit the program.

Jingo

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2014, 05:53:58 PM »
Though I haven't testing this yet in IMatch5 - here is my proposed workflow using IM and LR.  Please note - I am currently working on a MAC so bear in mind that my workflow will reflect using VMWare Fusion to access IM on a Win 7 virtual machine... not ideal.. but I"m not willing to give up my MAC at this point.

1 - Import in LR - do rename, convert to DNG, setup folder paths using LR importer - add basic metadata such as copyright.
2 - Cull and Develop in LR
3 - Update Metadata and Previews in LR
4 - Start Imatch - IMatch should auto-update and add DNG files with folder watch enabled off of top folder (subfolder enable)
5 - Find new Images (auto-tagged with a Red color) and do all metadata to the files
6 - Update files in LR with info from IMatch just to ensure future Updates to preview/metadata in LR don't overwrite IM

Finding images, viewing files, searching and other maintenance of the files will be done via IMatch..   Thoughts?

I know this may not be ideal.. but I'm not ready to give up LR's powerful RAW component and gallery sync features yet...  The batch editing I can do for similar images is priceless in my workflow as well. 

Mario

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2014, 07:25:06 PM »
2. Do not let both programs be open at the same time.  I've had issues where LR and IM

I have LR and IMatch open at the same time often.

Ferdinand

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2014, 10:35:57 PM »
I have LR and IMatch open at the same time often.

It's not so much not having them both open at the same time, but only using one at a time, and making sure that you write the changes from the one that you're using to XMP and then refresh those changes in the other program when you switch to it.  It's easier get this right if you only have one open at a time.

DigPeter

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2014, 11:18:43 PM »
1.  I normally have my GPS working when I shoot, so I first use Garmin's Base Camp to download the track.  The GPS and camera are both set to the same time.
2.  Download from camera with Breeze Downloader Pro.  This is old software, but it does what I want, namely:  changes file name to my standard format, puts files in my "Originals" folder, writes certain basic metadata information and extracts the GPS coords, all to an XMP file for raw images and directly to the jpg. 
3.  In IM, I cull the bad ones and add to the keepers metadata info:  e.g.  title, description, and hierarchical KWs.
4.  In LR, I only edit the original images;  no catalogue work, thank you.  I mainly shoot raw, but I also edit original jpg's.
5.  Export processed files in jpg format from LR to different folders than the originals.  The Export dialog is set to write all metadata and write keywords as LR hierarchy
6.  I do not use XMP for jpg's - should I?  Why?
7.  At the end of the process, I have an original set of files and a set of processed and converted images with the matching metadata. 

lightchaser

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2014, 09:00:47 PM »
I use LR
- as RAW converter and for writing Copyright information when importing files
- by importing LR automatically does basic sharpening and applies Camera/Lens profiles
- after the culling process I devlope the images and export the keepers as 16 bit TIFF files
-  import the files into IM
- don`t delete the RAW images in LR at that point
- Edit most of the images in Photoshop and save them
- Write IPTC data in IM 3.6 (works like a charm, not sure about IM5?? Help?)
- Export the TIFF with image processor as JPEGs
- Export the RAWs as DNGs to IM
- Delete the TIFFS after having auto processed the best images for my portfolio in IM

Now a question: Yesterday I've made an unprepared jump into IM5 that ended in an disaster. Thought there would be a seamless transition. Finally IM5 crashed and I realised that IM5 is a very different baby. What is very important for me is an easy IPTC workflow as I have in IM3. Have deleted my IM5 DB and the programme.
QUESTION: can I achieve an as simple and reliable XMP/IPTC workflow with data written into the images as I had in IM3 and can this be achieved by a simple computer user without programming knowledge. Is there a good manual for this?
Regards
lightchaser (xdreamphoto.com)

herman

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2014, 09:08:58 PM »
QUESTION: can I achieve an as simple and reliable XMP/IPTC workflow with data written into the images as I had in IM3 and can this be achieved by a simple computer user without programming knowledge. Is there a good manual for this?
Sure, there is an excellent manual for this.
Just open the help system, first page, there is an entry called "For IMatch 3 Users".
It tells you everything you need to know when transitioning from IM3 to IM5.
Enjoy!

Herman.

Jingo

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2014, 09:11:04 PM »
Though I haven't testing this yet in IMatch5 - here is my proposed workflow using IM and LR.  Please note - I am currently working on a MAC so bear in mind that my workflow will reflect using VMWare Fusion to access IM on a Win 7 virtual machine... not ideal.. but I"m not willing to give up my MAC at this point.

1 - Import in LR - do rename, convert to DNG, setup folder paths using LR importer - add basic metadata such as copyright.
2 - Cull and Develop in LR
3 - Update Metadata and Previews in LR
4 - Start Imatch - IMatch should auto-update and add DNG files with folder watch enabled off of top folder (subfolder enable)
5 - Find new Images (auto-tagged with a Red color) and do all metadata to the files
6 - Update files in LR with info from IMatch just to ensure future Updates to preview/metadata in LR don't overwrite IM

Finding images, viewing files, searching and other maintenance of the files will be done via IMatch..   Thoughts?

I know this may not be ideal.. but I'm not ready to give up LR's powerful RAW component and gallery sync features yet...  The batch editing I can do for similar images is priceless in my workflow as well.

Just wanted to note that my test run yesterday worked quite well.. I did change my system slightly though - I am now running IMatch via Parallels in Cohesion mode and it is a much smoother process.  IMatch opens as a native MAC App within the OS and accesses my network shares much much faster than the VM system via VMWare.   I think this will make a good match with LR in OSx and the workflow seems to work ok.. think the DNG workflow will fit much better for me than RAW + JPG versioning/proxies would.  I guess we'll see moving forward how things are... 

Erik

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2014, 11:21:18 PM »
I have LR and IMatch open at the same time often.

It's not so much not having them both open at the same time, but only using one at a time, and making sure that you write the changes from the one that you're using to XMP and then refresh those changes in the other program when you switch to it.  It's easier get this right if you only have one open at a time.

Yes... this is actually generally how I do it, but I mentioned the recommendation not having them open as I have gotten caught up with conflicts between the two programs inadvertently. 

I do also have the automatic write back xmp on in LR for the edit settings, but if people don't necessarily want to mess with their XMP data (and my camera shoots DNG so XMP is embedded in my files) then they may not want that feature. 

As an aside, you'd think saving the develop settings in LR would be a good thing, but I had revisited some files (back when LR 5 was released)  I had processed back in LR3, and LR5 would not read the settings because of the different process version.  I think that once I changed the process version in the Developer back to what was in those files, it did read the settings, but there was no way to change from one process to the other without starting over.  This is another reason why I'm not counting on the DNG files for embedding previews or as the only spot for the settings. 

Gerd

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2014, 11:21:54 PM »
Hi,
I have made a lot of trials with LR and IM5, but at he end: LR is my picture-editor (or PS CS6). If a picture is ready, I save it under a new name (e.g original-name + lr5 + a), the letters at the end as special (e.g. _hdr). Now I update IM5 and have the edited pic in IM5. In IM5 they are only categorized, all other work is done in LR. That's the simplest way for me .. ;-)

I also tried to mark with colors (in both directions), but then I need to rescan either LR or IM. If it is the same month, no problem, but if the selected pics are different in years, it took too much time to rescan (notebook with i5). Now I have a notebook with i7 processor (not for the pics), this helps a lot to reduce time, but to buy a power-notebook only for the pics .....
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 11:27:21 PM by Gerd »
_______
Regards
Gerd

Mario

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Re: Workflow with Lightroom
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 08:21:59 AM »
Finally IM5 crashed and I realised that IM5 is a very different baby.
When IMatch crashes it displays a dialog box, offering a DUMP file and a log file. These files are very important to find out what happened. I would like to have them.

Keep in mind that IMatch 5 was in Beta test for 12 months and random bugs like this are rare now. They often depend on specific circumstances, machine configuration, the files used, the WIC codecs installed and what the user did when the crash happened. Without detailed feedback from you inform of a bug report in the bug report forum, a DUMP file and the log file, I will be unable to do any kind of analysis. If you have filed a bug report, let me know. If not, please preserve the ZIP file created by IMatch during the crash and write a bug report.

What is very important for me is an easy IPTC workflow as I have in IM3. Have deleted my IM5 DB and the programme.
QUESTION: can I achieve an as simple and reliable XMP/IPTC workflow with data written into the images as I had in IM3 and can this be achieved by a simple computer user without programming knowledge. Is there a good manual for this?

1. Start by reading the "For IMatch 3 Users" section in the help.

2. An easy metadata workflow is built right into IMatch 5.
Just use the Metadata Panel to edit the metadata in your files. Use the Keyword Panel to work with keywords.

3. IPTC (IIM IPTC or now legacy IPTC) has been abandoned by the IPTC committee several years ago. It's a thing of the past. It's all XMP now and IMatch supports that.

If you as more specific questions, e.g. "Where do I edit the headline for my photo", we can give detailed answers. We also need to know which file formats you are using, if you still need to support legacy IPTC etc.