Thumbnail size of RAW file not the same as that for .jpeg?

[dadu]

Forgive me if I've missed this somewhere...

When I adjust the thumbnail size, IMatch 5 will adjust it for my .jpeg files, but not my RAW files (.nef, .srw); i.e. the thumbnails for my .jpg files can be much larger that those for my RAW files, which stay the same small size. 

I there a way to synchronize/match the thumbnail size for both my RAW files and .jpg files?

Thx.

[Mario]

You adjusted the thumbnail size where?
In the database options (Edit > Preferences > Database) or for the file window?

I guess you mean that the thumbnails for your RAW files are rather small in the file window? Maybe only 160x120 pixel?
This would indicate that IMatch cannot understand the format of your RAW and can only extract the thumbnail.

Do you have WIC codecs for your RAW format installed?

Select on of your RAW files and then run a WIC diagnosis via Help > Support > WIC Diagnosis.
Post the result here.

See also http://www.photools.com/1167/wic-support-codec-availability/ for more info.

[dadu]

Hi Mario,

Edit>Preferences>Database is set to 300 pixels.
Yes, I mean the thumbnails are rather small in the file window; you are correct 160x120 pixels.
I have Samsung's RAW editor installed on this same PC, and the thumbnails for the same .srw images can be enlarged larger in Windows Explorer (Windows 7), and I know I have installed the FastViewer and MS codecs....

BTW, I still have IMatch 3.6 installed on the same PC and it is now exhibiting the same behavior and as I recall it was not before...(I have not recently been using IMatch 3.6 due to other projects, and only am looking at it with fresh eyes again after installing the new IMatch 5.)

Here is the WIC Diagnosis:

*****************************************
List of installed codecs:
   Codec 'BMP Decoder' for extensions .bmp,.dib,.rle
   Codec 'GIF Decoder' for extensions .gif
   Codec 'ICO Decoder' for extensions .ico,.icon
   Codec 'JPEG Decoder' for extensions .jpeg,.jpe,.jpg,.jfif,.exif
   Codec 'PNG Decoder' for extensions .png
   Codec 'TIFF Decoder' for extensions .tiff,.tif
   Codec 'WMPhoto Decoder' for extensions .wdp,.jxr
   Codec 'Google SketchUp Thumbnail Provider (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .skp,.skm
   Codec 'Adobe XMP-Based PDF Thumbnail Provider (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .pdf
   Codec 'Fuji Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .raf
   Codec 'Adobe Lightroom Preview Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .lrprev,.noindex
   Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .srw
   Codec 'Radiance HDR Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .hdr,.pic,.rgbe,.xyze
   Codec 'PNM Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .ppm,.pgm,.pbm,.pnm
   Codec 'OpenEXR Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .exr
   Codec 'Hasselblad Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .3fr,.fff
   Codec 'Adobe DNG Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .dng
   Codec 'TGA Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .tga,.tpic,.vda,.icb,.vst
   Codec 'JPEG Rotator (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .jpg,.jpeg,.jpe,.jfif,.exif
   Codec 'Canon Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .cr2,.crw
   Codec 'Epson Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .erf
   Codec 'Panasonic Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .rw2
   Codec 'Adobe XMP-Based Thumbnail Provider (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .eps,.ai,.indd
   Codec 'Nikon Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .nef,.nrw
   Codec 'Leica Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .raw,.rwl
   Codec 'Sony Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .sr2,.srf,.arw
   Codec 'JPEG Derivative Handler (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .jps,.mpo
   Codec 'Mamiya Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .mef
   Codec 'Autodesk Maya IFF Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .iff,.tdi
   Codec 'Minolta Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .mrw
   Codec 'Rawzor Compressed Raw Format Previewer (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .rwz
   Codec 'Phase One Image Decoder 2' for extensions .TIFF,.TIF,.IIQ,.IIP,.EIP,.MOS
   Codec 'Pentax Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .pef
   Codec 'Sinar Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .cs1
   Codec 'Kodak Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .dcr,.kdc
   Codec 'DDS Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .dds
   Codec 'Softimage PIC Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .pic
   Codec 'Photoshop Document Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .psd,.pdd
   Codec 'JPEG 2000 Baseline Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .jpf,.jpx,.jp2,.j2c,.j2k,.jpc
   Codec 'Olympus Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .orf
   Codec 'Sigma X3F Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .x3f
   Codec 'Valve Texture Format Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .vtf
   Codec 'Silicon Graphics RGB Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .sgi,.rgb


Testing file 'M:\iMatch_pictures\Peterson Vol. 35\Img0260\SAM_1752.SRW'
   Thumbnail: Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      () 160x120 pixel in 78 ms.
   Preview: Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      (GetPreview failed (88982F81 Unknown error 0x88982F81).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.
   Full resolution: Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      () 3648x2736 pixel in 15 ms.

*********************************************************

Thanks for any help...

[Mario]

You now have WIC support installed.
When you force IMatch to rescan some of your files (select them in a file window, then <Shift>+<Ctrl>+<F5> and "Force Rescan" IMatch should be able to load the full-size preview and also to produce 300 pixel thumbnails.

If IMatch 3 shows the same behavior with your files, same reason. No WIC codec was installed. Also the same solution.

[dadu]

Hi again, Mario,
I have rescanned the file (and even tried a few others...)

I still do not have the same size thumbnail...

Please see attached screenshot.

Also, does this have anything to do with the problem? (shown in the WIC diagnosis above...):

   "Preview: Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      (GetPreview failed (88982F81 Unknown error 0x88982F81).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms."

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

That just means that the codec cannot extract a preview from your files, only the thumbnail and a full-size image. IMatch uses the full-size image automatically when the codec cannot extract the preview.

Can you please

1. Set IMatch to debug logging (Help > Support > Debug logging)
2. Repeat your test to force rescan of some of your files.
3. Copy some of your files to a new folder and add that folder to your database.
3. Attach the log file resulting from that test session

In almost all cases the fact that IMatch can only get the 160 pixel thumbnail is because of the installed codecs,

[dadu]

Hi Mario,

I did not have a chance to run the debug log on my home PC before coming in to work this morning, but I installed IMatch 5 on my work laptop and imported a single folder of photos into its new database. Interestingly, I can see thumbnails on this laptop for .SRW files that are about 260x195 pixels (and large thumbnails for .SRW files are available in Windows Explorer)

Note that the FastViewer codec has NEVER been installed on this laptop, but the Samsung RAW editing application has...

I ran the debug log and WIC diagnosis on this laptop for comparision.

Also, look at the picture I took when I hover my mouse over the info icon for the .SRW file (does that 640x480 indicate that that is the size of the embedded .jpeg?  (The RAW file dimensions are much larger, obviously...)

Does this help you decipher what's going on with my home PC?

*********************************************

WIC diagnosis from my work laptop:

List of installed codecs:
   Codec 'BMP Decoder' for extensions .bmp,.dib,.rle
   Codec 'GIF Decoder' for extensions .gif
   Codec 'ICO Decoder' for extensions .ico,.icon
   Codec 'JPEG Decoder' for extensions .jpeg,.jpe,.jpg,.jfif,.exif
   Codec 'PNG Decoder' for extensions .png
   Codec 'TIFF Decoder' for extensions .tiff,.tif
   Codec 'WMPhoto Decoder' for extensions .wdp,.jxr


Testing file 'C:\Users\Z000E5NP\Pictures\1-8-2014\SAM_1691.SRW'
   Thumbnail: Codec ''
      (CreateDecoderFromStream failed (88982F60 Unknown error 0x88982F60).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.
   Preview: Codec ''
      (CreateDecoderFromStream failed (88982F60 Unknown error 0x88982F60).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.
   Full resolution: Codec ''
      (CreateDecoderFromStream failed (88982F60 Unknown error 0x88982F60).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

This computer has no WIC codec for the SRW format installed.
IMatch this can only use whatever the third party imaging component can extract from the file, which seems to be a 640 pixel image. IMatch needs WIC codecs in order to support RAW formats. The FPV codec I have here (latest version) supports all SRW files I have collected over the last years.

[dadu]

Okay, so I just now purchased and installed the latest FastViewer Codec pack on this laptop to make sure I have latest (I might be using the free version at home...). Rescanned the folder, too.

I run the WIC diagnotics again, and on this laptop it still only indicates a 160 pixel thumbnail is being pulled.  See below.  So what does that mean?  I've also attached the debug log.

*****************************

List of installed codecs:
   Codec 'BMP Decoder' for extensions .bmp,.dib,.rle
   Codec 'GIF Decoder' for extensions .gif
   Codec 'ICO Decoder' for extensions .ico,.icon
   Codec 'JPEG Decoder' for extensions .jpeg,.jpe,.jpg,.jfif,.exif
   Codec 'PNG Decoder' for extensions .png
   Codec 'TIFF Decoder' for extensions .tiff,.tif
   Codec 'WMPhoto Decoder' for extensions .wdp,.jxr
   Codec 'Google SketchUp Thumbnail Provider (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .skp,.skm
   Codec 'Adobe XMP-Based PDF Thumbnail Provider (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .pdf
   Codec 'Fuji Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .raf
   Codec 'Adobe Lightroom Preview Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .lrprev,.noindex
   Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .srw
   Codec 'Radiance HDR Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .hdr,.pic,.rgbe,.xyze
   Codec 'PNM Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .ppm,.pgm,.pbm,.pnm
   Codec 'OpenEXR Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .exr
   Codec 'Hasselblad Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .3fr,.fff
   Codec 'Adobe DNG Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .dng
   Codec 'TGA Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .tga
   Codec 'JPEG Rotator (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .jpg,.jpeg,.jpe,.jfif,.exif
   Codec 'PhotoLine Thumbnail Provider (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .pld
   Codec 'Canon Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .cr2,.crw
   Codec 'Epson Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .erf
   Codec 'Panasonic Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .rw2
   Codec 'Adobe XMP-Based Thumbnail Provider (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .eps,.ai,.indd
   Codec 'Nikon Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .nef,.nrw
   Codec 'Leica Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .raw,.rwl
   Codec 'Sony Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .sr2,.srf,.arw
   Codec 'JPEG Derivative Handler (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .jps,.mpo
   Codec 'Mamiya Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .mef
   Codec 'Autodesk Maya IFF Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .iff,.tdi
   Codec 'Minolta Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .mrw
   Codec 'Rawzor Compressed Raw Format Previewer (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .rwz
   Codec 'Pentax Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .pef
   Codec 'Sinar Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .cs1
   Codec 'Kodak Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .dcr,.kdc
   Codec 'DDS Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .dds
   Codec 'Softimage PIC Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .pic
   Codec 'Photoshop Document Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .psd,.pdd
   Codec 'JPEG 2000 Baseline Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .jpf,.jpx,.jp2,.j2c,.j2k,.jpc
   Codec 'Olympus Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .orf
   Codec 'Sigma X3F Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .x3f
   Codec 'Valve Texture Format Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .vtf
   Codec 'Silicon Graphics RGB Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)' for extensions .sgi,.rgb


Testing file 'C:\Users\Z000E5NP\Pictures\1-8-2014\SAM_1692.SRW'
   Thumbnail: Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      () 160x120 pixel in 0 ms.
   Preview: Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      (GetPreview failed (88982F81 Unknown error 0x88982F81).) 0x0 pixel in 0 ms.
   Full resolution: Codec 'Samsung Raw Decoder (FastPictureViewer Codec Pack)'
      () 3648x2736 pixel in 0 ms.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

This only means that the file does not contain an embedded preview image. It has only a thumbnail and the full-size RAW. IMatch will automatically use the full-size RAW to generate the thumbnail and the cache image.

[dadu]

Okay, now it's getting interesting, Mario.

I went home, installed the latest version of FastPictureViewer codec and rebooted.
I re-scanned one of the folders with the problem .srw files and saw no change.

I then took a copy of one of the ORIGINAL problem .srw files, along with an .nef file, and iPhone .jpg, and other .SRW files and put them in a new folder and added that folder to my database.  Note that my current IMatch 5 database is a conversion from my IMatch 3.6 database.

The thumbnails for the files in the NEW folder ("Thumbnail_test") look fine.  However, those older .SRW files in the converted database folder still do not look right.  See the attached screenshots for comparison.

I've attached the log file and the WIC diagnosis.

Something is amiss....

Thanks for your patience and investigation.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Mario]

When you convert an IMatch 3 database, IMatch 5 imports the thumbnails "as-is" from the original database. It does not re-create the thumbnails from scratch.
Did you rescan one of the "old" folders with the "force update" feature (select the files, <Ctrl>+<Shift>+<F5>, then choose "Force Update")? Just rescanning a folder will not do anything because IMatch will only re-import changed files.

[dadu]

That was it.  I was not choosing "Force Update"; I was choosing "Normal Rescan".  Sorry it took me so long to understand what you were trying to tell me!!
Thanks, Mario.  It's a big relief!

[Mario]

Very good. Another issue solved, another happy user. Spread the word 

[dbvirago]

Let me know if you want me to start a new thread.

Darryl from DPReview here. Having the same issue. I did the WIC diagnostics and got this so it seems to be ok. Also did Force Rescan. Then I went to jpg images and have the same problem. What am I doing wrong?



WIC: Testing file 'C:\Users\dbvir\Documents\Photography\Images\Processing\Metadata\1.M Stock\20190426-SSI-322.CR2'
   Thumbnail: Codec 'Microsoft Camera Raw Decoder'
      () 120x160 pixel in 15 ms.
   Preview: Codec 'Microsoft Camera Raw Decoder'
      () 3840x5760 pixel in 344 ms.
   Full resolution: Codec 'Microsoft Camera Raw Decoder'
      () 3840x5760 pixel in 0 ms.

WIC Result: A codec for this file format is installed and it looks like it fully supports the format.

[Mario]

You have which problem, exactly?

Error message when processing files?
Image not showing in the file window?
Image not showing in the Viewer or QuickView Panel?

For the file used with the diagnostics, IMatch should have no problem creating a thumbnail or displaying the file in the Viewer and Quick View Panel.

[dbvirago]

Sorry, I guess my screenshot didn't get uploaded. My thumbnails don't get any bigger when I move the slider. The codec seems to be okay for raws, but I'm also having the problem with jpegs.

[Mario]

The default size for thumbnails is 300 pixels (See: Edit > Preferences > Database).
This is usually sufficient for screens up to 4K resolution. And a good trade-off between database size on disk, amount of data to load to display thumbnails, memory need for caching thumbnails etc.

When your screen shot s 100%, my measurements show that the long edge is 300 pixel - which would indicate the default thumbnail size of 300 x 300 pixel.

If you really need thumbnails displayed larger than 300 pixel, you have two options:

1. Allow IMatch to scale database thumbnails to sizes > 100%.
Enable under Edit > Preferences > Application. Search for 100 on that page to quickly locate the setting.
This is off by default because scaling images beyond 100% always requires some upsampling and quality loss.

2. Alternatively, change the maximum thumbnail size for your database under Edit > Preferences > Database and then do a forced-rescan (Select files, then press Shift+Ctrl+F5) for all files you want to have larger thumbnails. This can blow up your database considerably, though.The preferences dialog will give you some numbers for each thumbnail size, which explains disk usage and memory usage per thumbnail. This grows by a power of 2 of course (thumbnails twice as big need four times more disk space / memory).

[dbvirago]

Thanks, Mario. I was probably trying to misuse thumbnails instead of using the Quick View or sending to the Viewer. It's making more sense now. Almost through all the videos