Author Topic: Populating Location Created Tags  (Read 961 times)

PandDLong

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Populating Location Created Tags
« on: March 15, 2021, 06:24:07 PM »
I have found this topic on a couple of old threads - which was very useful to better understand my experience with location metadata.  At least one thread was a feature request but it was quite dated so I thought it better to create a new one.

A couple of threads included comments about the complexity of how GPS tags are used and expected, so I have tried to constrain this request to be fairly straight forward (at least to my brain it is).

Currently, when assigning a Location or performing a reverse Geocode the 'Location Shown' (and associated composite) tags are populated.   The Location Created tags are not touched.   As per the attached screen shot, it creates a situation where it looks like a mismatch of tag information between the GPS tags and the Location tags.

Practically, most of the time they are one and the same - ie. most people, most of the time are good with Location Shown and Location Created being the same.   In the cases where one wants them to be different to reflect the situation, the Maps Panel does a great job of allowing a second set of GPS co-ordinates to be identified and the reverse Geocode will differentiate Location Shown and Location Created and populate both - this seems to be only automated process for populating Location Created tags.

I have created a metadata template that I apply when I want the Location Created to be the same as Location Shown but it would be nice to have it built-in to iMatch.



My request is that whenever populating the 'Location Shown' tags through assigning a Location or reverse Geocode using the primary GPS co-ordinates, iMatch populates the 'Location Created' tags with the same information.  Alternatively a check-box could be added to these situations to make it an option.



I am not aware if there are other situations where iMatch populates the Location Shown tags using an automated or background process beyond the Location assignment and reverse Geocode processes - if there are other cases I understand it may complicate this request.  I also expect that this is a request that could only be considered if there are other changes being made to the geo-functions of iMatch.



Michael



« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 06:27:23 PM by PandDLong »

Mario

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2021, 06:29:36 PM »
IMatch performs updates on GPS coordinates and location data in according to established standards.
Location shown is filled by default as required, unless you provide both a created and shown/destination coordinate pairs - which is easy to do in IMatch.

Destination Coordinates ('Location Shown')


PandDLong

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2021, 10:13:49 PM »

Yes, when there is a Created and Destination GPS pair - iMatch is excellent.

Yes, when there is just one GPS co-ordinate, iMatch does exactly what is needed for the established standards - ie. populate Location Shown which in turn populates the legacy IPTC Core Location information.

I would like iMatch do one more step when there is one GPS co-ordinate and also populate Location Created.

Right now - it is this odd situation that the primary GPS populates Location Created if there is a GPS Destination but without a 2nd GPS, it doesn't - even though in this "one GPS" situation it still represents Location Created but it also represents Location Shown.

I admit it is a nice-to-have.

Mario

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2021, 10:44:30 PM »
IMatch behaves that way because is is the industry standard and the best way to stay compatible with popular applications out there.
Believe me, we've gone through several iterations about this years back. And how it works now, works best.

lbo

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2021, 01:08:20 PM »
Currently, when assigning a Location or performing a reverse Geocode the 'Location Shown' (and associated composite) tags are populated.   The Location Created tags are not touched.   As per the attached screen shot, it creates a situation where it looks like a mismatch of tag information between the GPS tags and the Location tags.

indeeed, what did you exactly to get this result?

Your initial data contained only the GPS lat/lon/alt data, no GPSDest tags?

I have created a metadata template that I apply when I want the Location Created to be the same as Location Shown but it would be nice to have it built-in to iMatch.

I can't imagine a situation where I would first assign a "location shown" ans then set "location created" to his coordinates.

Wouldn't it be simpler to first set "location created" to the desired position?

PandDLong

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2021, 01:03:12 AM »
Quote
indeeed, what did you exactly to get this result?

Your initial data contained only the GPS lat/lon/alt data, no GPSDest tags?

Exactly.  One of:
   1. The photo came with co-ordinates as the camera captured GPS at-source - and in that situation it doesn't populate GPSDest tags.
   2. I assigned a Location to the photo using a metadata template
   3. I used the map panel to add GPS   (and did not add a second Destination co-ordinate)


Quote
I can't imagine a situation where I would first assign a "location shown" ans then set "location created" to his coordinates.

Wouldn't it be simpler to first set "location created" to the desired position?

It would make more sense to assign Location Created first as that is what GPS captured at-source means but if one wants both "location created" and "location shown" to be the same - which is frequently the case - then I use the automation to get "location shown" populated first.


I certainly understand the convention/standard to populate Location Shown when there is only 1 set of GPS co-ordinates.  It matches past practices and supports all of the software that only looks at Location Shown (or the legacy location tags which were meant to be "shown").   

I was hoping that automating the additional step to copy would not break the standard and be a little helper.

I have stumbled upon more threads on this forum about this topic so it seems well discussed.

sinus

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2021, 08:53:27 AM »
I am not sure, if I do something wrong.
My image has no GPS (mostly).
Then inside IMatch I add the GPS-stuff.

If there is not a really far away image, I add only the normal GPS.
See attachement 1.

If there is a real visible far away object (like a mountain), then I use the shown-destination (but not always).
First I add then the created GPS, then the shown and it looks then like in my attachement 2.

Maybe it is not fully correct, but it is ok for me. And to be honest, I do this only in rare cases, because it makes often not really sense (except if we want be very correct and perfect).

Sorry, maybe I do not fully understand, what you want.
You write "My request is that whenever populating the 'Location Shown' tags through assigning a Location or reverse Geocode using the primary GPS co-ordinates", but I cannot really imagine this situation clearly.

In my example, I have not gps at all for starting, how would your idea fit in here?
And if there would be a gps already in the file trough a cam with gps-possibilties, then the file would also look like my example (say almost), attachement 3 (with a Sony-cam with gps built-in). And how would now come your idea into play?

You have your reasons of course, at the moment I still cannot follow fully.  :-[
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

PandDLong

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2021, 05:44:17 PM »
Markus,

Thank you for the detailed response.  Your situation is very much like most of my photos (no camera GPS and usually no need for a separate Location Shown). 

I will take some time to look at your attachments more closely and play-around with iMatch.

Michael

Mario

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2021, 06:16:57 PM »

jmsantos

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2022, 07:41:15 PM »
I recommend also reading: Destination Coordinates ('Location Shown')

I know that this issue has been discussed several times. I also know what the MWG guidelines say, but I still don't understand why. Let's see:

I take a photo in a certain place, for example inside a castle. Obviously what you see in the photo is the inside of the castle. I locate in the IMatch Map Panel and place the yellow target marker "inside" the castle. Then I do reverse geocode: the location metadata is Location Shown  ???. Shouldn't it be Location Created, or both?

However, in IMatch Help, Destination Coordinates ('Location Shown') says:
"Normally, files have a set of GPS coordinates. These coordinates have been added by the camera at the time the image was taken, or later using external software such as the IMatch Map Panel. These coordinates represent the location of the camera at the time the image was taken.
The EXIF metadata standard (and the corresponding tags in XMP) also supports a set of target GPS coordinates ("Displayed Location"). These coordinates are usually filled in manually by the user in a specialised application. They represent the location the camera was looking at."

Doesn't that mean that assign GPS coordinates to files in the Map Panel following the instructions will show the GPS coordinates of the camera's location, not the location shown in the photo?

Another case: I take another picture taken inside the castle looking through a window and the picture shows, for example, a church. I place both images at the same time in IMatch Panel, because they are both taken in the same place along with many others. However, the church would appear in Location Shown with the same coordinates as the castle. Yes, I could fix it by putting the coordinates of the church and all that, but I don't think it's worth the effort. I think it would be simpler if all selected photos showed the Location Created from the beginning, as the IMatch Help seems to indicate.


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Mario

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2022, 07:50:10 PM »
If you have found a typo or missing information in the IMatch help, please use the feedback link at the bottom.
This routes your comment into a special pipeline and I look at these feedback posts about once a week or two weeks.

The Map panel allows you to set the location created and location shown coordinates individually, when you need this.
This topic has been discussed to death several times, and I'm currently at 150% workload, so I don't have the time to repeat everything that has been said and documented in the help again. Sorry.
Please utilize the search function in the community to find related topics. This should answer your questions I'm sure.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 08:09:07 PM by Mario »

sinus

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2022, 09:52:37 PM »

Then I do reverse geocode: the location metadata is Location Shown  ???. Shouldn't it be Location Created, or both?


As far as I understand this, Shown location is correct.
Maybe I am wrong, but it sounds also logical for me, if you are in the castle, on your photo it is the location, what is shown on the photo.
Go outside of the castle, take a photo from it and it is even more clear, it is shown the location of the castle.

Now, if you turn and take a photo from a church, far away, with a tele, than it will be more complicated.
Because now you have to deal with two GPS-data.

One, what is shown, and this would be the church, and one would show, where you stand, at the castle.
Now you have two GPS-data.

But from my point of view, it is not worth to deal with this. Except you are an expert in such things or you have plenty of time. Say, a photographer, who is specialiced in taking pictures of mountains, then this will be important, what is shown on the photos and from where it is taken.
But normally it is not important.

Nevertheless I attache you an image, where I did fill out both (with help of the Match-map, see the help there), the data in red is the location, from where I took the photo, but the photo itself shows the data of the shown gps.

I hope, this makes sense, and again, think about it carefully, if you really need this. It will use a lot of time.
And finally, if you we look at it deeper, than you have a lot to do, because even if you take a photo from a house, say 20 or 50 meters away, you could also change the GPS into shown and stand, because the gps is not the same.
But who does this really?
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

jch2103

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2022, 01:29:05 AM »
I agree with Markus that it's (usually) not worth dealing with both Location Created and Location Shown, but I do sometimes use both, especially when I'm traveling.

Here's are some examples:

I have a shot taken in in Prague of the famous clock on the old town hall. I used a GPS track created via the Open Street Map app and had IMatch use the track to create GPS tags for GPS Latitude and Longitude ({File.MD.XMP::exif\GPSLatitude\GPSLatitude\0} and {File.MD.XMP::exif\GPSLongitude\GPSLongitude\0}). The clock was in the image and I was standing near it, so there was little confusion about the location. I could have used the IMatch Map module without a GPS track, with the same results.

For another shot I took nearby in the old town square, I used the same GPS track technique as above, so I now had the GPS latitude and longitude encoded in the image. But I decided I also wanted to show
the destination latitude/longitude for this different building. Using the IMatch Map module, I added the Destination coordinates ({File.MD.XMP::exif\GPSDestLatitude\GPSDestLatitude\0} and {File.MD.XMP::exif\GPSDestLongitude\GPSDestLongitude\0}) along with GPS Image Direction ({File.MD.XMP::exif\GPSImgDirection\GPSImgDirection\0}). (If I had used my smartphone for this shot, it would have already had both sets of GPS coordinates in the image, along with direction, and wouldn't have needed to add them.)

Metadata tag names are confusing because many are very similar, and unless the 'long' names are used to describe them you can end up in quite a muddle. I think that's the case here, and it's why I gave the full tag names in my examples. I hope this helps.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 01:31:36 AM by jch2103 »
John

jmsantos

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Re: Populating Location Created Tags
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2022, 12:18:18 PM »
This may not be the right place to comment on this issue, I can understand that. I also know, as I said, that this topic has been discussed before, but sometimes it is difficult to find past threads on a particular topic. And I will give feedback on the IMatch Help because I think there is a mistake in Destination Coordinates ('Location Shown') or I don't understand it correctly.

Actually, my comment in the previous post was a reflection on the MWG guideline of assigning Location Created only to images that have GPS data embedded by the camera. Images to which GPS coordinates are subsequently added, for example in IMatch Map Panel, will have a Location Shown assigned to them. That's the issue I don't understand, but I know it's the accepted standard.

If I make a GPS track and then automatically assign the GPS data thanks to the Map Panel, it is clear that the positions are from where the camera was (Location Created), not from where I was looking (Location Shown).

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