Author Topic: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states  (Read 454 times)

Mike

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Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« on: February 05, 2021, 03:10:09 PM »
Overall feedback based on many individual annotation states.

An example:

Among other things, I have thousands of folders, each one corresponding to a documentation topic I'm working on.
This work can come to an end, but it can also suddenly resume if circumstances change. Since they are archive folders, they stay where they are in the long term.

It would be very helpful, if I could see what status each folder is in. These would, for example, change color depending on what is happening inside. So I could easily recognize them in Media & Folder.

Rough example:

Would you annotate all the pictures in a folder in a certain way, e.g. everything with a green dot, then the folder would also turn green or somehow signal the status.
If you were to paste a completely new, unannotated image into the folder, the folder would notice this and change its color again etc.

Is something at least similar possible in iMatch?


Mario

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2021, 03:42:49 PM »
You can use color-coding for your folders: Color-Coding

There is no function to automatically mark folders based on whatever proprietary schema a user comes up with, sorry.
Usually you would do your kind of workflow using categories, with formulas probably, combing a folder formula with a collection formula, to show, for example, only files on folder X which don't are in collection Y. Or which are in collection Z. Category Formulas

IMatch is a DAM, not a specialized document management system. It seems you are expecting too much from a general purpose DAM.
Maybe don't try to fit everything into one software, use multiple specialized systems for your various requirements.

Implementing a system which places various "indicators" on folders or categories or collections or timeline nodes or events or persons based on a variety of user-configurable rules would be technically possible, but very complex, a potential maintenance horror and of use maybe for a handful of users out there...

Because this would quickly end in things like "Place this icon on that folder when conditions A and B but not C are met". Or something along that line.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 03:56:51 PM by Mario »

Mike

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2021, 05:04:29 PM »
Quote
It seems you are expecting too much from a general purpose DAM.

It was not an expectation, just a question. As a newbie - who does not yet have a sufficient overview of iMatch -, I saw a lot of interesting functions, and was curious, how they can be combined to obtain the best in a given situation.

Since I already use the "specialized software" you are talking about, iMatch is not intended to replace anything and it is already doing very well as a DAM. It was just interesting for me to investigate how I can combine everything most efficiently.

I will try as well the way you suggest using categories (and formulas) as also the following thing:

A combination between folder colors and the update indicator:
a) If I personally change the contents of the folder, I could also adjust the color manually. (even if it takes a little longer)
b) If data comes from outside, I could make it more visible if I set the background indexing to off so that the blue indicator is permanently displayed.
That wouldn't change the folder color automatically, but at least it reliably signals that the folder status is being challenged by new data.

I'm curious to see which path will prevail in the end.

Thanks for the information

sinus

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2021, 05:17:47 PM »
To be honest, I do not understand fully, what you want.

But bear in mind, you can work with categories and there you can work with formulas.

You can have e.g. 3 folders.
Then you create 3 categories what each category reflects one folder.

Then you can create a formula, that where you can see, if new files has added today ... or in the week or last month ...

If you work with index e.g. with flags, you can create a category where all flags appears and so on.

Categories with formulas are very powerful. Combined with a clever folder-system and with the use of collections (flags, pins ...) you can create a very good category-system.

Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

Mike

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2021, 06:49:32 PM »
What I wanted is visual feedback on the state of work within a folder. And because there are so many folders of this type, I was hoping for some sort of automatism.

a) The files in such a folder will be processed over time and new files may also be added to the folder.
b) A file can therefore either be untouched, in process or finished.
c) The overall status of a folder fluctuates accordingly,
d) Annotations can be used to visualize the states of individual files.
e) When I discovered the color coding of the folders, I asked myself whether this coding could be linked to the annotations of the files within the folder.
f) If that had been the case, the folder colors would have automatically adapted to the status of the content and provided visual feedback in the Folder & Media.
g) With minimal DAM-typical effort - annotating files if necessary - everything else would have happened automatically.

I understand that the intended connection is not possible and I can also imagine the complexity and implications of an implementation, as Mario described.
So I will follow his and your recommendations regarding categories and formulas and try to find a workable way.

If I find a particularly suitable solution, I will post it here.

jch2103

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2021, 08:54:41 PM »
It's possible a custom app could be created by someone with the requisite experience to do what you want, assuming the necessary end points exist, but that's certainly beyond my capabilities.
John

thrinn

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2021, 09:54:09 PM »
What I wanted is visual feedback on the state of work within a folder. And because there are so many folders of this type, I was hoping for some sort of automatism.
(...)
I understand that the intended connection is not possible and I can also imagine the complexity and implications of an implementation, as Mario described.
So I will follow his and your recommendations regarding categories and formulas and try to find a workable way.
I would also recommend a workflow more oriented on categories ("traditional" IMatch categories, not @Keywords categories which are special in several respects). After all, one possible use of categories is to see them as "virtual folders". They are more flexible than real folders which are hard-wired to the physical layout on disk. As sinus pointed out, Category Formulas can be used to combine them with pins, dots and so on.

One possibility could be to use something on the lines of the sample IMatch Workflow categories and combine them with a folder filter to view e.g. all "files in progress" in one or some specific folder(s).

From your other posts I understand that you have a significant of files in your database. Regarding performance, categories are also very fast (with some caveats regarding @Keywords and data driven categories). The fact that regular categories work inside the IMatch DB, without need to synchronize something with physical files, might be an advantage here.
Thorsten
Win 10 / 64, IMatch 2018, IMA

Mike

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2021, 01:01:26 AM »
Very useful thoughts on that. Thank you!

I will have to question a lot of aspects, because the effects of wrong decisions would cost me a lot of time in the long run.
There are about 7,000 such folders at the moment and I expect another 2,000 in the next few months. The amount of data will also increase significantly.

At this point, I cannot question the folders themselves, as they are a reliable link to other programs. But - as you also say - within iMatch I have the additional option to switch to category combinations.
Thanks to the good and extensive iMatch documentation and the many interesting posts I found in this community, I am confident that I can develop a workable solution.

jch2103

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2021, 01:08:35 AM »
What I wanted is visual feedback on the state of work within a folder. And because there are so many folders of this type, I was hoping for some sort of automatism.
(...)
I understand that the intended connection is not possible and I can also imagine the complexity and implications of an implementation, as Mario described.
So I will follow his and your recommendations regarding categories and formulas and try to find a workable way.
I would also recommend a workflow more oriented on categories ("traditional" IMatch categories, not @Keywords categories which are special in several respects). After all, one possible use of categories is to see them as "virtual folders". They are more flexible than real folders which are hard-wired to the physical layout on disk. As sinus pointed out, Category Formulas can be used to combine them with pins, dots and so on.

One possibility could be to use something on the lines of the sample IMatch Workflow categories and combine them with a folder filter to view e.g. all "files in progress" in one or some specific folder(s).

Without knowing more granular details of Mike's workflow, this seems like a very efficient approach (much more so than my suggestion above of a custom app!). By using IMatch Categories for individual files, you can quickly see the status of those files and you can filter or otherwise organize as thrinn suggests.

That will also allow you to have an overview of the workflow status of all your files, which may be advantageous. And the nature of Categories makes it easy to test different ideas without disruptions or reorganization of your database.
John

Mike

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2021, 01:55:31 AM »
Quote
And the nature of Categories makes it easy to test different ideas without disruptions or reorganization of your database.

Yes, it would be beneficial to be able to experiment with concepts a little more freely than folders would allow.

At this point in time a diverging phase takes place in which the number of data increases very rapidly, but in the meantime I am building a system in the background that has a converging effect, i.e. more and more towards a synthesis of the examined data. So one day the data will shrink again ... That gives me hope, because otherwise I would panic at the idea that my not so new computer has to process so many things.

Sometimes I have thought about splitting everything into two iMatch databases, one for literature and one for visuals, but as long as everything is still working well I can postpone such a decision.

ubacher

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2021, 09:52:14 AM »
If you need to see only files which have been added and not worked on I suggest you look at the
INDEXING options. You can have Imatch set Flags or categories for each new or modified file.

Then you can display the corresponding collection and see all "new" or "modified" files.
Or you can filter the Media and Folders window to show the specific collection. This then can show you the corresponding folder
as a header - or you can use a thumbnail layout which shows you the folder on the thumbnail.

Mario

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2021, 10:16:32 AM »
This is a common workflow. See Indexing for details.

When rescanning a folder, IMatch can assign files to categories and/or collections (even differing between new files and updated files!), and it you, for example, setup a "Work to Do" category, all files which have not been processed will end up there. You can then use it for filtering, in combination with folder formulas to create categories containing unprocessed files per folder and more.

Also, the "Recent" set of collections show you all recently added or updated files, going back 3 months. You can also use them as filters in any file window or in category formulas.

Mike

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2021, 01:25:40 PM »
Thank you for the helpful tips!

I will test various possible solutions for a while and try to find a balance between feedback quality, maintenance effort and performance requirements ...

PaulS

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2021, 03:24:42 PM »
One possibility could be to use something on the lines of the sample IMatch Workflow categories and combine them with a folder filter to view e.g. all "files in progress" in one or some specific folder(s).

There is a very nice feature of the Folder filter in the Filter Panel that might be useful in combination with the previous suggestions about categories and collections.

The folder tree in this filter shows file counts only for the files in context whether you are are using Media & Folders, Categories, Collections, People, etc.  (If the Folder filter is not visible in the Filter Panel, you can add it using the gear icon).

Example:  I have a little over 30,000 files in my "Pictures" folder.  Using the People tab, I chose a person who was in 711 files within Pictures.  In the folder filter you can immediately see how that person is distributed across all folders (see attachment). 

Another case:  You could go to the Collections tab to see all of the files that were Recently Added - This Month and can immediately see where they are located from the folder filter.

It does not provide the color coding by folder that you wanted but at least you can very quickly see where the files of interest are located.

Mario

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2021, 04:07:30 PM »
This IMatch software has so many features...awesome 

Mike

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2021, 06:58:20 PM »
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There is a very nice feature of the Folder filter in the Filter Panel

Yes, this folder filter is also a nice and helpful addition that I just got to know thanks to your posting.


Additional thoughts ...

One little thing could make the Filters folder (but also other trees) even more efficient: if the corresponding entries were to appear in bold. That would let us find them faster than the values alone.

And even more: If we select one or more files in the file window, the trees (filters, but also the tabs) might react to the fact that the file appears in them. Folder or category names would also be shown in bold or something like that, when they have something to do with the seletect files.

No idea whether that demands a lot of performance, but it could offer additional visual orientation.

Mario

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Re: Overall feedback based on individual annotation states
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2021, 07:12:01 PM »
Value and category and collection filters are dynamic. For folders, I did not bother. Nobody really needs that, nobody requested that since IMatch 5 (!).
Feel free to do a proper feature request in the FR board. Just mentioning them in a 6 page thread will achieve nothing.