Which metadata field should be used for new files?

[ben]

Hi everyone,

i would like to save the following metadata to jpg files but don't know which xmp fields to use:
  - country
  - location created (text)
  - location shown (text)
  - title
  - description
  - date/time original (not digitized)
All fields should be saved as text-format, except the date.

I read a bit through the metadata working group guideline and i think i know a bit how iMatch treats the metadata fields when reading/writing.

Examples:
But, i got confused with 2 examples.
  - {File.MD.Composite\Location\Location\0}
  - {File.MD.XMP::photoshop\DateCreated\DateCreated\0}

After writing back the new added text and (i think) after imatch re-reads the file again, both entries get removed again (or replaced by another text).
I used the tags from the tag selector tab "standard" which i thought have kind of the highest priority.

Question:
So, which xmp fields are the most safest ones and should be used for new jpg files?


Thanks for any help,
Ben

[jch2103]

I'd suggest you first try using the 'Default' metadata template (use the drop-down under Metadata in the Metadata pane). It's already set up for most of the metadata tags you want to use. You can then further customize it as you wish.

I'm assuming you're using jpgs from a digital camera, where some metadata is already populated by the camera.

[ben]

ok, i started with "default" template and with a "clean" jpg. It does work, thanks.

But i am still confused.
I thought that the "standard" tags from the tag-selector are supposed to work in every case. Am i still missing something?

[jch2103]

When you say a "clean" jpg, do you mean straight from the camera? If so, there will be quite a few EXIF tags already filled in. These include the originally created data and digitized date.

Some of the 'standard' tags are either read-only or not recommended to be written to (rather, just for viewing). I'm not sure why some of your custom tags appear to have been overwritten otherwise. I think we'd need more specifics to be able to tell what was going on.

[ben]

When you say a "clean" jpg, do you mean straight from the camera?

Yes, straight from the camera

Some of the 'standard' tags are either read-only or not recommended to be written to (rather, just for viewing)

Ok, good to know. Is there a list, which tags are save to be written?

I'm not sure why some of your custom tags appear to have been overwritten otherwise. I think we'd need more specifics to be able to tell what was going on.

After i sent the last comment i played around with different tags and cannot reproduce it anymore. So i think i just leave it this way. I guess it was just too much of manually changing metadata.



2nd issue:
I think i will use the following metadata fields (all from the iMatch "default" template).

• {File.MD.XMP::dc\title\Title\0}
• {File.MD.XMP::dc\description\Description\0}
• {File.MD.Composite\Country\Country\0}
• {File.MD.Composite\Location\Location\0}
• {File.MD.XMP::Lightroom\hierarchicalSubject\HierarchicalSubject\0}
• {File.MD.XMP::photoshop\DateCreated\DateCreated\0}

I wanted to see, how other programs treat the data written by iMatch (Zoner v16 and Win7 Explorer).
I attached two files:

• pic20.jpg:   new picture straight from the camera, with added metadata in iMatch
• pic21.jpg:   changed metadata in Zoner v16
• pic23.jpg:         changed metadata in Win7-Explorer

Results:

• Zoner and Win7-Explorer display all metadata from iMatch correctly
• Metadata changed by Zoner: The changed title/description are shown in iMatch, but country/location/keywords are missing
• Metadata changed by Win7-Explorer: The changed title/description are shown in iMatch, but country/location/keywords are missing

Questions:

• Do Zoner and Win7-Explorer not follow the MWG guidline?
• Even though iMatch follows the rules of the MWG, it does not correct all errors in the metadata created by other programs?
• The best way is, to ONLY write metadata in iMatch and use other programs like Lightroom/Zoner only to change the picture itself and not the metadata?

I know this is a very long post, but I really appreciate your help,
Ben

[ben]

forgot the pictures...

[attachment deleted by admin]

[thrinn]

Do Zoner and Win7-Explorer not follow the MWG guidline?

I can not comment on Zoner as I do not know that program. And I doubt that Explorer knows anything about MWG.

Even though iMatch follows the rules of the MWG, it does not correct all errors in the metadata created by other programs?

If a program uses some non-standard field to store a piece of information, IMatch cannot know about that. But if you find out where, for example, the location is stored, you could use a Metadata Template to move it to a standard field on import. Did you check your files using the Browser layout in the Metadata panel? It shows a lot more information than the Default layout.

The best way is, to ONLY write metadata in iMatch and use other programs like Lightroom/Zoner only to change the picture itself and not the metadata?

Short answer? Yes!  Using multiple Metadata editors in parallel adds additional complexity to an already complex topic. Personally, I use Geosetter (free tool) to write GPS info to my pictures before importing them into IMatch. This works well. Geosetter uses Exiftool in the background, just like IMatch. So I just hope this leads to a better understanding 

Just my two cents.

[jch2103]

Questions:

• Do Zoner and Win7-Explorer not follow the MWG guidline?
• Even though iMatch follows the rules of the MWG, it does not correct all errors in the metadata created by other programs?
• The best way is, to ONLY write metadata in iMatch and use other programs like Lightroom/Zoner only to change the picture itself and not the metadata?

1. I'm not familiar with Zoner, so can't comment on it. However, I wouldn't count on MWG compliance unless it's specifically claimed as a feature. Windows Explorer isn't really meant for editing metadata, although it can do that; it's more for display of system metadata. Keep in mind that the tags it can display include those for many different media types (e.g., MP3 and the many, many flavors of video), but it doesn't provide much of an explanation of exactly what the tags are (some may not be what they appear to be).

2. As has been discussed many times on this forum, metadata is a mess! (Efforts by MWG and others notwithstanding.) For example, although there's an EXIF standard for digital camera metadata, most of the manufacturers add their own proprietary 'maker notes' rather than expanding the EXIF standard. So there are many approaches to metadata by various folks, and of course they aren't all consistent. (And the situation for video metadata is far worse...) So the short answer to your second question is, no, IMatch can't anticipate all the variations that are out there. That's part of the reason IMatch uses ExifTool to handle metadata, as it's the closest thing there is for an all-encompassing solution to the metadata issue. For more insight, take a look sometime in the ExifTool user forums: http://u88.n24.queensu.ca/exiftool/forum/

3. Probably. It makes life easier to stick to a few tools that work well.

Regarding tags that are 'safe' for writing, take a look at the Browser Metadata template. You'll notice different icons showing which can be written to, which are locked, etc. See the Help for more information about the icons.


By the way, I noticed that you apparently modified some of the dates on the sample images. In general, that's not a good idea unless you're correcting a wrong camera clock or unless you're dealing with scanned images that don't have dates. I assume, though, you were just testing the editing capabilities of IMatch.

Also, regarding locations, you may want to check out the Map panel. You can use that to set a location for images, and then reverse geocode them for country/state/city/location. But then there are many options to explore in IMatch...

[ben]

Hi jch2103 and thrinn,

thanks for you advice.
I think i will edit metadata only through iMatch and use other programs only to edit the picture or view the metadata.

Regarding tags that are 'safe' for writing, take a look at the Browser Metadata template. You'll notice different icons showing which can be written to, which are locked, etc.

Thanks, good hint.

By the way, I noticed that you apparently modified some of the dates on the sample images. I assume, though, you were just testing the editing capabilities of IMatch.

Right, i was just playing around a bit. And i have also a bunch of scanned images which i want to tag. Therefore i will need to change the date-created as well.

Also, regarding locations, you may want to check out the Map panel. You can use that to set a location for images, and then reverse geocode them for country/state/city/location.

Yep, good hint again. But since my camera doesn't create gps information, i will leave that for later.



Finally, would both of you be so nice and let me know which tags you use for the following information, even though you partially answered it already:

• Title/Headline
• Long description
• Country/Location
• Date Created

Ben

[Mario]

Finally, would both of you be so nice and let me know which tags you use for the following information, even though you partially answered it already:

    Title/Headline
    Long description
    Country/Location
    Date Created

Al these are standardized metadata tags included in XMP. Just use the tags with the same name, available e.g. in the 'Default' Metadata Panel layout. This ensures proper storage in XMP, and also, if desired or required, proper migration to older metadata standards like IPTC. There are tags named "Title", "Description", Country, Location, Date created. Why not use them?

There is a lot and valuable information about all this in the IMatch help. I suggest you browse that information to make an informed decision.

[jch2103]

Finally, would both of you be so nice and let me know which tags you use for the following information, even though you partially answered it already:

• Title/Headline
• Long description
• Country/Location
• Date Created

As Mario said, use the Default Metadata template as a basis:

Headline: XMP::Photoshop\Headline\Headline\0
Description: XMP::dc\description\Description\0
Location:
  Composite\Country\Country\0
  Composite\State\State\0
  Composite\City\City\0
  Composite\Location\Location\0 (This is for lower-than-city location)

You may also want to use ISO Country Code:
  xmp::iptcCore\countrycode\Countrycode\0

Date Created: See this discussion on the Forum: https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?topic=1129.0

John

[Mario]

Always use the Standard tags when possible. The requested data can be stored right in the Default layout of the Metadata Panel.

[thrinn]

Hi Ben,
Mario and John said it both, and I agree: Use the standard tags whenever possible. I work with them, also.

[Ferdinand]

I agree with all the suggestions:  do all metadata and folder and naming management in IMatch; use standard fields; look at the icons to see what is writeable.  My only other comment is that you may find it helpful to create a custom metadata layout that only shows the fields that you want / need. 

[sinus]

I agree with all the suggestions:  do all metadata and folder and naming management in IMatch; use standard fields; look at the icons to see what is writeable.  My only other comment is that you may find it helpful to create a custom metadata layout that only shows the fields that you want / need.

And I agree also totally, specialy with all of Ferdinands remarks ... simply because just now I have finished my personal layout for the metadata-panel. And it is crazy, what is possible to do there, for example show another color of the metadata-field, if it is empty or has a special value (like "church" or so).

[jch2103]

... simply because just now I have finished my personal layout for the metadata-panel. And it is crazy, what is possible to do there, for example show another color of the metadata-field, if it is empty or has a special value (like "church" or so).

One of the reasons for being able to export metadata templates is to let users share their templates with others. Yours sounds interesting. Any chance you could post it as an example in https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?board=45.0 ?

Someone once also shared the tip of how to export only one template (John Zeman??) to make this easier, but I can't find it. (It was something like 1. Open the metadata panel editor; 2. Delete all the layouts you don't want to export; 3. Export the desired template; and 4. Very important!! Cancel the panel editor without saving so you don't lose any of your templates!!)

[Ferdinand]

4. Very important!! Cancel the panel editor without saving so you don't lose any of your templates!!)

Or save a temporary copy of the entire set of layouts before you start deleting the other ones, which you can then reload.  (I don't trust myself not to absent-mindedly press the OK button.)

[sinus]

One of the reasons for being able to export metadata templates is to let users share their templates with others. Yours sounds interesting. Any chance you could post it as an example in https://www.photools.com/community/index.php?board=45.0 ?

jch2103, done 

[jch2103]

Thanks! Very interesting, especially the highlighting of 'empty' tags.

Maybe your example will inspire other users to post their examples.

John

[pmbvw]

@Sinus: Thanks a lot for your example.
It is extremely helpful for me to learn editing panel layouts
and all my needed fields are there. I have only to remove  a few fields