Author Topic: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool  (Read 1787 times)

Winfried

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I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« on: January 21, 2016, 03:33:29 PM »
First remark: I use Qimage for printing nearly as long as I use IMatch, i.e. since 2003

I am convinced by the concept of drag-and-drop of files to other applications. This works fine with Qimage (as a printing software)
and other software, mayby layout software, i.e. word  ;) or scribus.

Drag-and-drop does not work with the Design and Print Tool...  >:(
Why does the Design and print Tool has its own "media pool"? 
Imatch itself is the best media pool I can think of!
I would like to create a category "photobook holiday winter 2015" and assign this category to all images I would like to have in the book.
Via drag-and-drop I would like to include the images on the appropiate pages of a template.

I don't like the places where the templates are saved. Why don't make the files to files IMatch knows how to handle?

On color management: To my opinion color manegement does not really work yet.
My tests in my environment showed
- the monitor profile is not used
- softproofing does not work for the profiles/printers I use

Printing itself to a printer is not fail-safe. The use of a printer-profile depends on the appropriate settings of the printer driver.
If you use different kind of papers you have to adjust these settings "by hand". It is not possible to create printer-templates for the papers I use.

I have not yet tested the the design part in deep. I managed to redo a 4 page design I had in scribus in the Design and Print Tools.
Well, it worked. Thats all I can say about the design part at this state.


Winfried





Mario

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 03:51:03 PM »
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Drag-and-drop does not work with the Design and Print Tool...  >:(
Why does the Design and print Tool has its own "media pool"? 

You start the Design & Print tool by dragging files, folders, collections, categories to timeline nodes to the Design & Print module in the Import & Export panel. If you want to change your selection, just drag other files onto the module. If Design & Print is not open, it will open. Else it will update to reflect the new set of files you have dropped.

You can also drag files from IMatch or Windows Explorer onto a page to create a graphics container.

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I don't like the places where the templates are saved. Why don't make the files to files IMatch knows how to handle?

Print templates are XML files, stored with the IMPTS extension. IMatch stores these files in "all users" template folder (shared templates) or in your templates folder. I don't see a reason why you would add these files to your asset management system. Scripts, metadata and file window templates etc. are also stored in these folders and not added to IMatch.

If you really want to manage your Print templates in IMatch, add the file format under Edit > Preferences > File Formats and index the folders.

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- the monitor profile is not used

Where? Monitor profiles are not used for printing.

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- softproofing does not work for the profiles/printers I use

How does it fail? Not applied? Colors wrong? Which settings do you use?
Please provide your profile in an attachment.

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Printing itself to a printer is not fail-safe. The use of a printer-profile depends on the appropriate settings of the printer driver.
If you use different kind of papers you have to adjust these settings "by hand".

I can't follow. This is always the case. IMatch cannot control the settings you make in the printer driver. If you insert matte paper but configure your printer to print for glossy paper, results will be wrong.

When you print, IMatch allows you to open the printer configuration via the button. This opens whatever printer configuration dialog Windows has for your printer, or the printer configuration installed by the printer driver. IMatch is completely out of the loop here, all this is managed between Windows and your printer driver / configuration dialog.

Winfried

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 05:17:09 PM »
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You can also drag files from IMatch or Windows Explorer onto a page to create a graphics container.

That works fine from the Windows Explorer, but not from IMatch (at least in my environment).

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I don't like the places where the templates are saved. Why don't make the files to files IMatch knows how to handle?

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Print templates are XML files, stored with the IMPTS extension. IMatch stores these files in "all users" template folder (shared templates) or in your templates folder. I don't see a reason why you would add these files to your asset management system. Scripts, metadata and file window templates etc. are also stored in these folders and not added to IMatch.

If you really want to manage your Print templates in IMatch, add the file format under Edit > Preferences > File Formats and index the folders.
ok, this is a minor concern. But it would be nice if a double click on the template would open the application, i.e. the Design and Print Tool

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- the monitor profile is not used

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Where? Monitor profiles are not used for printing.
In the normal display. There are differences between the "view-screen" of IMatch and the Design and Pritn Tool screen.
Please the screenshot.

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- softproofing does not work for the profiles/printers I use

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How does it fail? Not applied? Colors wrong? Which settings do you use?
Please provide your profile in an attachment. The image looks different in the Design and Print Tool and the
I print on an Epson 4900 on paper made by Tecco  (PL285) and use the profile provided by Tecco.
Please see the screenshot.
I will attach the profile in an update.

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Printing itself to a printer is not fail-safe. The use of a printer-profile depends on the appropriate settings of the printer driver.
If you use different kind of papers you have to adjust these settings "by hand".

Quote
I can't follow. This is always the case. IMatch cannot control the settings you make in the printer driver. If you insert matte paper but configure your printer to print for glossy paper, results will be wrong.

When you print, IMatch allows you to open the printer configuration via the button. This opens whatever printer configuration dialog Windows has for your printer, or the printer configuration installed by the printer driver. IMatch is completely out of the loop here, all this is managed between Windows and your printer driver / configuration dialog.

That is right, but that is the benefit  dedicated printer-tools like Qimage or Mirage deliver. They can have different printer-templates/settings depending on the paper I am going to use.
I have settings for i.e Tecco PL285 and another setting for Hahnemühle xyz ....



[attachment deleted by admin]

Winfried

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 05:18:38 PM »
Here comes the printer profile

Winfried

[attachment deleted by admin]

Mario

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2016, 06:19:59 PM »
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They can have different printer-templates/settings depending on the paper I am going to use.
I have settings for i.e Tecco PL285 and another setting for Hahnemühle xyz ....

You can print the same IMatch document to any printer, and change the settings you use any time. If you print the template on another paper, select the paper and inks in the printer configuration dialog.

Please also keep in mind that QImage's only purpose is printing and it is around for maybe 15 years. And the current version of the IMatch Design & Print module is version 1.0 and it's about six weeks old.

Profiles...

It's is entirely possible that you may get different results from soft-proofing in QM and IMatch. I'm sure that QM applies all kinds of 'optimization's or changes not available in the soft proofing performed by Windows integrated color management. IMatch just hands over the print pages to Windows ICM and applies the color profile you have selected for soft-proofing. IMatch does not do a complete pre-flight, it does not have paper profiles or similar. That's functionality way beyond the scope of an asset management system, rarely needed, and if, you can always rely on software dedicated to high-quality printing like QImage.

Winfried

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 08:12:41 PM »
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change the settings you use any time. If you print the template on another paper, select the paper and inks in the printer configuration dialog.
I meant this is not fail-safe, since you cannot define "proven" template for these settings. I am using about 8 different papers. Each paper requires special settings in the driver.
Without using template for the settings in the driver for each paper, I would be lost.
But I understand that this is not in focus of IMatch at the moment.

And yes, the layout functionallity seems to be better than in Oimage.

Winfried

Mario

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 08:33:22 PM »
I haven't used QIP for many years.
I understand that it allows you to configure presets of paper/ink/printer settings? Often such settings can be configured in printer drivers as well, and re-called later.

We'll see how many requests are made for the D&P feature in the feature request board over time.

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And yes, the layout functionallity seems to be better than in Oimage.

This is a deep, deep feature. Many awesome things can be achieved using dynamic layouts and it will take some time to figure them all out. And then there are IMatch variables, and how you cannot only use them for output but also for dynamically customizing templates, ...

sinus

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 09:40:26 PM »
I haven't used QIP for many years.
I understand that it allows you to configure presets of paper/ink/printer settings? Often such settings can be configured in printer drivers as well, and re-called later.

That is what I do. Simply store different papers and so on in the printer-preferences and then simply choose it, dependent, what Paper I take.

We'll see how many requests are made for the D&P feature in the feature request board over time.

To be honest, Winfried, I will not like this. You are correct, in a perfect world this should be done. But I see the Print & Layout specially for creating layouts. And specialy for people like you, who does have a lot of understanding, how colormanagement and profiles and so on should work, it should not be a problem, to know the difference, what is on screen and what will be printed on paper or/and find a good solution for this.
For most of the people printing the correct colors is not important ... even not for a lot people of the photo - industry. I saw enough people, who did discuss about colors in a print, well, in the restaurant, under a yellow lamp and the some other colors around them.
But of course, maybe in your case it is important, but then, I think, you will be able to find a good solution for you.

If Mario had a lot time and nothing to do ... well, I would like your FR.  ;D But he has a lot of other things to do (I guess) and not to forgot, not that long, and I will fire my FRs for this print-tool.  ;D ;D ;D


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And yes, the layout functionallity seems to be better than in Oimage.
I used scribus, well, fine, but after 2 years I gave up, because it was simply too akward to use for me. I use since then InDesign and I am more than happy, though Adobe-products are quite expensive.  :-\
But the print-tool of IMatch is very powerfull, I think, specially if we can use some dynamics template, what I do mostly.

Hope, Winfried, you have still a lot of fun and will create some sophisticated templates.
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

Winfried

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 09:56:48 PM »
Hi Markus,
I have two big concern with this tool.
- I don't like the approach to start it via the "Import and Export"-Dialog.
  drag-and-drop from IMatch does not work in my environment. Maybe I have something overlooked in the documentation.
- bugs regarding the color-management implementation. Specially not applying a monitor-profile is a nogo.
  I can live with the softproof-error.

Winfried

sinus

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 11:01:06 PM »
Hi Markus,
I have two big concern with this tool.
- I don't like the approach to start it via the "Import and Export"-Dialog.
  drag-and-drop from IMatch does not work in my environment. Maybe I have something overlooked in the documentation.
- bugs regarding the color-management implementation. Specially not applying a monitor-profile is a nogo.
  I can live with the softproof-error.

Winfried

Hi Winfried
Hm, I am not sure, maybe I am wrong, but here I can choose different monitor-profiles and they work. And if I compare them with Photoshop, they are equal.
Best wishes from Switzerland! :-)
Markus

Aubrey

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 12:58:00 PM »
Hi Markus,
I have two big concern with this tool.
- I don't like the approach to start it via the "Import and Export"-Dialog.
  drag-and-drop from IMatch does not work in my environment. Maybe I have something overlooked in the documentation.


Winifred,
I have started using the print module and so far have found it versatile. One can drag more photos from IMATCH file viewer to the Design and print section that you have brought up from tools, this is on the right side of the file window These images will then appear at the bottom of the Design and Print module window, under files.
You do not try to drag the image directly to the files window of the design and print module.

I'm not behind my computer, so I can't make screen dumps to illustrate.

Aubrey.

Mario

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Re: I am not convinced by the Design and Print Tool
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2016, 03:28:01 PM »
- I don't like the approach to start it via the "Import and Export"-Dialog.
Since the Design & Print is an export module, this is the place to link it in. You should be happy to hear that you can also start the Design & Print module from the File > Print command or via <Ctrl>+<P> in the next release.


  drag-and-drop from IMatch does not work in my environment. Maybe I have something overlooked in the documentation.
You want to drag what and where?  Be specific.
When you start the Design & Print module, you drag files/folders/collections/categories to it. This seems to work, else it would not open.

When you want to change the files shown in the thumbnail panel at the bottom of the Design & Print module, just drag another set of files to the Import & Export panel Y> Design & Print. I explained that above already, but you don't see to want to do that. What else do you want to drop?

You can drop files form Windows Explorer to a page, this creates Graphcis containers. Does this not work for you?

Or do you try to drag files from a file window to the Design view? This is not implemented, not documented and hence it will not work. If that is your problem, let us know.

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- bugs regarding the color-management implementation. Specially not applying a monitor-profile is a nogo.

You are again rather vague. You say that in the Design view (?) Windows does not color manage the images (?). Do you mean file containers? Graphics containers? Would you expect a print feature to use a monitor profile for rendering images?