Author Topic: Capture One and embedded metadata  (Read 3822 times)

bastian

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Capture One and embedded metadata
« on: December 12, 2014, 10:38:04 PM »
I have scans saved as tif files I want to tag before processing them in Capture One. I would like all annotations to be performed using sidecar files but whatever option I chose (Default / Force / Favor) in Metadata 2 the main file is still altered.

I do not want these files to be changed at all. What do I do wrong?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 04:56:47 PM by bastian »

joel23

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2014, 10:50:25 PM »
I have scans saved as tif files I want to tag before processing them in Capture One. I would like all annotations to be performed using sidecar files but whatever option I chose (Default / Force / Favor) in Metadata 2 the data is embedded in the files.

I do not want these files to be changed at all. What do I do wrong?
You do nothing wrong. Not yet. Metadata always should be embedded in DNG/PSD/TIF/JPG.

But talking about annotations: to my knowledge (I don't use them) annotations is a proprietary concept of IMatch and by this, this kind of information is stored in the DB only.
regards,
Joerg

bastian

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2014, 01:43:21 AM »
oh
But talking about annotations: to my knowledge (I don't use them) annotations is a proprietary concept of IMatch and by this, this kind of information is stored in the DB only.

Oh yes when I wrote annotation I meant keywords and other metadata belonging to a file. I guess I'll just accept this behavior?

Mario

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2014, 07:25:10 AM »
1.  The TIF file format is one of the formats which is supposed to contain embedded XMP data always. You should have very good reasons to force TIF files to use XMP in sidecar files - because IMatch will probably the only application which can handle that. All other applications you may touch the TIF files with will ignore the XMP data in the sidecar file or, even worse, create a secondary embedded XMP record. This is to be avoided.

2.  If the TIF file already contains EXIF and/or IPTC data, IMatch will update that data to keep it synchronized with the XMP data for the file. This is required to be compliant to the standards set by the Metadata Working Group. Whether the XMP metadata is embedded in the file or in a sidecar file, it is important to keep it in synch with existing IPTC/EXIF/GPS data embedded in the file.

Mario

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2014, 07:26:31 AM »
But talking about annotations: to my knowledge (I don't use them) annotations is a proprietary concept of IMatch and by this, this kind of information is stored in the DB only.
Vector-based Annotations are a very powerful IMatch feature. They are stored inside the database, with the notable exception of face annotations, which are also stored in and synchronized with XMP metadata.

bastian

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2014, 02:59:43 PM »
I have posted the issue on the C1 Forum.
forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=17771&p=84707
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 03:30:06 PM by bastian »

bastian

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2014, 03:45:13 PM »
Is there a tool for extracting specific metadata from a number of files and move them into an existing xmp sidecar file and vice versa?

Mario

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2014, 03:53:10 PM »
What do you mean with "move to sidecar"?

XMP metadata is a superset of other metadata. The Metadata Working Group defines rules how XMP data is to be mapped between EXIF/IPTC/GPS, so basically the EXIF and IPTC namespaces inside the XMP already contain the EXIF and IPTC metadata that is in the file. You don't need to manually move metadata around, at least if you use software like IMatch which properly handles all this.

bastian

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2014, 04:55:55 PM »
I see. I wanted to embed the metadata I had had Capture One already write into xmp sidecar files.

CO is horrible when it comes to Metadata and tif files. I had files which were already tagged to some degree in Capture One. CO had stored these plus all the previously embedded tags in xmp sidecar files and from this point would never re-read embedded metadata. So if I applied any additional changes to the metadata embedding it in the tif files CO would not see the change. deleting the sidecar files did not work, they actually re-appeared with all their original values. It turned out deleting the Cache files (or simply the entire Cache folder) will do the trick for CO to re-read embedded metadata.

Ferdinand

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2014, 01:05:04 PM »
I see. I wanted to embed the metadata I had had Capture One already write into xmp sidecar files.

ExifTool can do this, therefore you could use the ExifTool Command Processor in IMatch to do this.  You'll need to do a little research.  It's not a trivial thing, and I think that there are some catches for writing to TIFF files (something about IFD0 blocks).  Do you know what tags you want to migrate?  If there are specific ones that you can identify then that makes it safer.

There is an ExifTool Command Processor preset that creates XMP sidecars from enbedded data, which is the opposite of what you want to do.  In this code block I've reversed it to do what you want, but I haven't tested this so I insist that you try it on duplicate test images:

Code: [Select]
-overwrite_original_in_place
-tagsfromfile
{File.PathS}{File.Name}.xmp
{File.FullNameS}

And you must select the "Run for each file in selection" option.  if there are problems with this then it should be possible to tweak it.

CO is horrible when it comes to Metadata and tif files. .... It turned out deleting the Cache files (or simply the entire Cache folder) will do the trick for CO to re-read embedded metadata.

No argument there, although C1P is not alone.  Each converter has its metadata quirks and some are worse.  e.g.  DxO doesn't do XMP at all, as I understand it from what people have posted here.  Actually, perhaps that's better - better not to do XMP at all than do it badly, since then you can use IMatch to manage XMP.

I delete the cache folder after I have processed a folder of images.  No point cluttering up the system and AFAIK (as far as I know), C1P doesn't provide a way for you to manage the size of its cache when using sessions.  So I use the folder filter in IMatch to find all folders named "Cache" and then delete them.

jch2103

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Re: TIF xmp sidecar
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2014, 06:11:01 AM »
DxO doesn't do XMP at all, as I understand it from what people have posted here.  Actually, perhaps that's better - better not to do XMP at all than do it badly, since then you can use IMatch to manage XMP.

DxO doesn't write anything to XMP; however, the output files do contain the XMP metadata copied over from the original raw sidecar file. DxO displays some of the EXIF metadata but doesn't display any of the XMP metadata (except Rating).

As you suggest, this makes it easy and simple to manage XMP in IMatch.
John

bastian

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Re: Capture One and embedded metadata
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2014, 07:45:57 PM »
ooh nein, nun habe ich das auf Facebook inserierte Holiday Special verpasst, das ich doch eigentlich zum Anlass des Kaufes nehmen wollte.  :-[ Frohe Feiertage aber w√ľnsche ich!